A Date with a Nobel Winner

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Dr Venkatraman Ramakrishnan is among the very few scientists of Indian origin who have won a Nobel Prize. He won it this year for Chemistry. In the most basic terms, he helped created a three dimensional photo of a ribosome, one of the building blocks of our DNA, our genetic code. One of the practical uses of that 3D photo is better medicines. Drug companies can now design medicine molecules that can, just like LEGO blocks, lock in seamlessly with the nodes on our ribosomes. And that could mean a whole new world of treatment especially for diseases like cancer.

The American Centre arranged a web chat with Dr Ramakrishnan recently and he was besieged by awe-struck admirers - from nine-year-old school students to professional science journalists, they were all fighting to get a word in, to get their questions answered. Here is a transcript of what could probably be the longest, most free-flowing interview that he has ever done since he got the Nobel prize. If you've got even a lingering interest in science, it might be worth reading on.

Dr Venkatraman Ramakrishnan Hello everyone. I am happy to be answering questions. Since there are literally hundreds of questions in the queue, I will only be able to answer a small fraction of them. I would prefer to answer those that have something directly to do with my field or my particular expertise or career. Thank you.

Garima: We all feel very proud of your achievement. What more could be done to improve research levels in India? I want India to also be known for education after all we have so much talent here.

Dr Venkatraman Ramakrishnan Thank you for the good wishes. I have always felt that for research to improve, students need to be exposed to the very best research at an early stage. One change over the last several decades is that individual universities have lost ground to large research institutes. It would be a good idea to embed research institutes inside university campuses, and perhaps also integrate research more into universities. There also needs to be a strong emphasis on merit in selection of students and faculty, and scientists need to be free to pursue their work free of any local politics. Finally, education should be valued. Many of my teachers were not great research scientists but were excellent teachers, and I am grateful to them.

P.S.B.B.Sr. Sec. School, Chennai 34: What brought about the change in you to take up biology after doing Ph.D. in Physics?

Dr Venkatraman Ramakrishnan When I was doing a Ph.D. I was doing theoretical physics. This is a field that requires a particular type of abstract thinking. Moreover, I did not have a good feel for the problem I was working on, and had no ideas of what I would do if I were to continue in it. On the other hand, I used to read about articles in biology, mainly in Scientific American, and was fascinated by them. So I switched and joined a second PhD program in biology. One of the strengths of the US educational system is this flexibility - many countries would not allow you to register for a second PhD in a completely different field.

SND: Do you think science should start from boy or girl from a Village? What is your message to Govt. of India to promote this idea/

Dr Venkatraman Ramakrishnan Some people say that scientists are like children who have never grown up, because they continue to be fascinated by the things that every child is fascinated by. So in that sense, cultivating this curiosity from a very early age is a good idea.

Divya David: Sir, I am really very happy to know that Indians are getting the reputed Nobel prizes and you are one of those great persons, but what I have to ask is that after getting graduated from Indian i.e., acquiring the basics from India how you gave your scientific contributions to America. What is your feeling of that sir?

Dr Venkatraman Ramakrishnan I think you have to realize science is an international venture. A discovery made in one country is often exploited in a different country. So it is important not to be too nationalistic about science. It does not matter where the science is done. You should also realize that while I got my basic education in India, all of the specialized education and training that allowed me to work on the ribosome was obtained in the USA. And the resources and facilities for the high resolution structure were supported by the government of the UK. So all three countries can justifiably claim to have had a part in my work.

Americancorner Bangalore India Nischal: I am in 12th standard. I never enjoyed reading physics can you tell me the secret how to make this subject more understandable and enjoyable.

Dr Venkatraman Ramakrishnan The best way to appreciate something like physics is to take interesting natural phenomena and ask how physics helps to understand that.

Virendra Pandit: Dr R., Hi. I am an Ahmedabad-based Journalist with The Hindu Group. Would like to know which of the two, India and the USA, has better been able to assimilate cultural diversity?

Dr Venkatraman Ramakrishnan America is a nation of immigrants and has people from all over the world who have come there to live. So it has a tremendous amount of cultural diversity. However, India is also excellent in this regard. India has many different languages, religions, etc. and for me, the thing that makes me happiest is that all these people are basically getting along. Many people in the west predicted India would break up after independence and this has not happened, and as long as people continue to be tolerant of each other it will be good for the country.

Indira: Which qualities in researchers you consider essential for high quality scientific research?

Dr Venkatraman Ramakrishnan I think above all they should care about their problem, not just their next paper. It is important periodically to ask, ''What is the point of this work?'' It is also important to treat students and colleagues with respect since science is often not a one-person show but a team effort.

Amaran: In today's connected world, if I were to pursue a career in research in computational genomics, can I do it in India? I find the prospect of higher studies in USA or UK to be far too expensive for me!

Dr Venkatraman Ramakrishnan The one advantage of doing computational genomics in India is that you do not require large expensive experimental facilities. Nowadays, India is quite good in computing and IT. So there is a case for doing computational genomics in India, and my prediction is that this is a field in which India will start to excel. However, as for costs, you should realize that Ph.D. programs essentially pay you a fellowship or stipend, so it should not cost you very much beyond the air-fare to study in the USA.

Vijay: Congratulations for winning the 2009 Nobel Prize. Please let me if scientists are born or made?

Dr Venkatraman Ramakrishnan Shakespeare said ''Some men are born great, some achieve greatness, and some have greatness thrust upon them.'' I think the same might apply to being a scientist. My fear is that because my parents were scientists, I may be in the last category, i.e. I may have simply chosen science because I was exposed to it at during my childhood!

Adarsh Vijay: But my ambition is to go for IPS

Dr Venkatraman Ramakrishnan Then that is what you should do. People should go into whatever they are really interested in.

TISB: Sir, Since you have done all 3 sciences what science according to you is the best suited for Undergrad in US? And also Sir, what is the upcoming specific research field in engineering?

Dr Venkatraman Ramakrishnan There is no such thing as the ''best suited'' field. It depends on what you're interested in. I don't know much about what is new in engineering.

Anadi Misra: Why did you choose to research for ribosome and not something else?

Dr Venkatraman Ramakrishnan I got into ribosomes almost by accident, because I applied for a postdoctoral position at Yale with Don Engelman, and his colleague Peter Moore, who is a famous ribosome researcher took me on in 1978.

Himani: We have been tracking the trend that the Nobel Prize for Chemistry is increasingly being given for work related to Biology. So your successful transition was motivated by this factor or what prompted you to transit from Chemistry to biology?

Dr Venkatraman Ramakrishnan I can assure you that anyone who enters a field thinking that is the way to a Nobel Prize is really under a bad misunderstanding. The only way to choose a field is to ask if you are really interested in it.

TISB: Sir , how difficult was the transition from physics to molecular biology?

Dr Venkatraman Ramakrishnan Physics teaches you very quantitative mathematical reasoning. So conceptually it was easy to learn biology after that. But the difficult thing in biology is learning how to do proper experiments, for example the idea of ''controls'' is usually not even present in physics because the systems are much simpler than biological systems.

Swapnil Dikka: How would your discovery help to change the world?

Dr Venkatraman Ramakrishnan I think knowledge is important for its own sake, not necessarily because it will change the world. The structure of the ribosome is of fundamental importance to understanding how genes are translated into proteins. But the hope is that eventually (perhaps soon) it may lead to better antibiotics also.

Chori: Why is India yet to produce a Nobel prize winner?

Dr Venkatraman Ramakrishnan I have said this before: One should not judge science just by Nobel prizes. My observation is that countries need to improve economically and then are able to support basic research sufficiently to do good science. If you look at the USA, it was the leading economic power by 1910, but it was not until the post-war period (after 1945) that it became a major scientific power. Another case is Japan, which became economically strong in about 1960 onward, but only in the last 10-20 years is producing a lot of world class science including Nobel prizes. So this kind of development takes time.

Ira: How has your life changed since you won the Nobel Prize?

Dr Venkatraman Ramakrishnan Initially there were a lot of messages and invitations. Some of these invitations had nothing to do with my expertise or knowledge. But slowly life has returned to normal, and I am able to carry on my work.

Swapnil Dikka: What are your views about the relationship between chemistry and biology?

Dr Venkatraman Ramakrishnan People have noticed a lot of chemistry Nobel prizes go to biological areas. This is because at the heart of any biological phenomenon, there are large molecules doing some very complicated chemistry. So fundamentally, at the molecular level, biology is really chemistry.

TISB: Sir, what will be your future plan in the commercialization of your research?

Dr Venkatraman Ramakrishnan I am not personally involved in commercialization of science, but others have started a company to use the ribosome structures to design new antibiotics.

Dhruv: Sir what forced you into science?

Dr Venkatraman Ramakrishnan I was not forced into anything. In fact my father wanted me to study medicine because I got a seat in medical school, or I could also have gone for engineering. But I chose basic science because that is what I was interested in.

R Prasad, Science Editor, The Hindu, Chennai: Science teaching in India is more bookish and theoretical. Can such a system ever produce path-breaking research?

Dr Venkatraman Ramakrishnan I agree this is a problem, and there is too much cramming for exams that have very formal questions. My own experience in Baroda was very different. For Pre-science, we had the PSSC physics course from the USA, and for my B.Sc. we studied the Berkeley physics course as well as the Feynman lectures. This was due to a handful of dedicated teachers, esp. Prof. S.K. SHAH, many of whom had returned from the USA. So it will take individual professors to change this kind of bookish approach to science.

Nandkumar: What's your message to post graduate students and teachers in India?

Dr Venkatraman Ramakrishnan I always say the most important thing is to be really interested in a problem. Beyond that, I think students should look out to make sure the lab is well equipped, the professor has enough money to fund the research. For teachers, I think generally good advice is to let graduate students really participate in the work rather than using them just as a pair of hands to do the work. This means encouraging them to think, contribute ideas, etc.

R. Prasad, Science Editor, The Hindu, Chennai: How difficult is it to get sustained funding (even in the U.S.) for basic research in sciences compared with applied research?

Dr Venkatraman Ramakrishnan I have to say that although there is a lot of money in the US system, it is sometimes hard to get sustained funding because the grants are typically 3-5 years. This is actually one reason I moved to the MRC laboratory of molecular biology, which has a tradition of providing not exorbitant but very stable funding.

Nandkumar: What's the future of ribosome research?

Dr Venkatraman Ramakrishnan The main goals are to understand in detail how ribosomes work, which requires both structural and functional studies. In addition, eukaryotic ribosomes and eukaryotic initiation could use a lot more structural data.

Guest 3: Sir, would you consider coming back to India and teaching students here? Do you think there are facilities here that can make use of your skill?

Dr Venkatraman Ramakrishnan I have visited India almost every year for the past few years, and have spent my time on various campuses, given talks and talked to students. I hope this was useful and I intend to continue this as long as I am welcome.

Swapnil Dikka: Do you always look for success in the work or you focus on participation?

Dr Venkatraman Ramakrishnan I think all good scientists do both. One has to keep the goal (and Success) in mind, but you also have to enjoy the process, i.e. participation.

Nandkumar: what are prerequisites for artificial synthesis/assembly of a ''working' ribosome?

Dr Venkatraman Ramakrishnan Nomura and his colleagues showed you could assemble a ribosome in vitro, but completely artificial synthesis has not yet been done. The ribosomal RNA is modified, and perhaps this is important for assembly. It is also hard to make such large RNAs in large quantities synthetically.

Y.Vijaya Laxmi: Sir, how will your research help to remove various deadly diseases from world.

Dr Venkatraman Ramakrishnan this is a broad based problem and our research can at best contribute only a tiny part of the solution. But the hope is that these structures will be useful to design new antibiotics against resistant bacteria.

R. Prasad: You were quoted as saying that India today offers good opportunities and a student need not have to shift to the U.S. to do top class research. But how much of a path-breaking research is done in India compared to the U.S.?

Dr Venkatraman Ramakrishnan This is a very good question and one on which people could differ. There was a very interesting piece by Prof. M. Vijayan in your paper recently. I think it is true that there is more money in the system. Once Prof. C.N.R. Rao told me that when he returned to India he really had to struggle to get things done, but now he has tried to make sure that young investigators have the facilities they need. But except for people like Rao, G.N. Ramachandran and several others, the number of world class scientists is not what one would expect in a country the size of India, and in some ways, you could argue (as Vijayan has done) that pre-independence India produced more world-class scientists proportionately. I think that these things take time. I see very bright young scientists in my field in India who are publishing very good papers. Eventually these people will create an atmosphere of excellence, and then from that a culture of tackling the hardest problems (rather than a defeatist attitude of "we can't compete", etc) will emerge.

Deborah: It was such a long time. Didn't you lose patience at one point in time or jut want to give up?

Dr Venkatraman Ramakrishnan Yes, there were many times when I was discouraged. One has to be patient. Interestingly, at these times, my students and postdocs kept me motivated to continue because I could see how hard they were working and how enthusiastic they were.

Ishaan Bhatnagar: I am Ishaan Bhatnagar, nine year old from Bhopal. Which innovation in chemistry can be compared to the mobile phone

Dr Venkatraman Ramakrishnan Chemistry is about the study of interactions between molecules and basic facts of nature. The mobile phone, useful as it is, is a completely different object - it is a tool.

Ramesh Jain: Let me rephrase my question: What is it that the United States did rightly for you to be able to succeed in the phenomenal success that you have :)

Dr Venkatraman Ramakrishnan The USA is the closest to a meritocracy that I have seen. In other words, as long as you have the ability to do something, they care less about where you are from, what your background is etc. So they gave me the opportunities based on my ability. I am not saying it is perfect, because no country is. The other thing about the US is that it is the world leader in science and has a lot of money for research, so this makes it easier.

R. Prasad: Dr. Ramakrishnan, do you think that it became possible for you to switch from Physics to Biology since the research environment in the U.S. allows it? Or do you suppose that a lateral shift was possible as science in general and biology in particular has become interdisciplinary? 2) Considering the number of top class researchers, Nobel laureates included, in many universities in the U.S., and the benefits of being a part of such a research group, do you still hold the view that there is no compulsion for a young researcher to move to the U.S. to do top class research? 3) More and more biotechnology students are compelled to pursue research in the U.S. and other countries as India, barring a very few institutes, still do not work on cutting edge areas. Your comments. 4) You were quoted as saying that India today offers good opportunities, and a student need not have to shift to the U.S. to do top class research. But much of a path-breaking research is done in India compared to the U.S.?

Dr Venkatraman Ramakrishnan 1) I think the US environment is much more flexible with respect to allowing people to change fields. However, I think you are right in saying that science, especially biology, has become more inter-disciplinary and is attracting people from all sorts of fields like physics and mathematics.

2) I think it is easier to do top class research in the US (and the UK and Europe) because of the scientific culture of excellence. However, there are people in India who are now regularly publishing in top journals and doing very good work. So if you want to be trained well, it isn't absolutely necessary to move to the US. What you make of the training is then up to you. I think it is always hard to do really original work, and there is also quite a bit of luck involved. One important thing is that information now is easily accessible, and thanks to the internet, scientists in India are less isolated from the latest ideas than they used to be. This is going to have a huge impact on the future.

3) It is true that currently top class research in India is limited to a few good institutes. But that needs to change. One idea I have come across is embedding research institutes within universities, so students have a direct experience of first class research from a very early stage.

DNA newspaper: But then what do we lack? Is it infrastructure, zeal or something else?

Dr Venkatraman Ramakrishnan I think infrastructure does need to be improved, and this is happening, although it will take time. The zeal will come as more young scientists in India start tackling world class problems. I also see this happening, but it will take time.

Jay Vinayak Ojha: If there was a Nobel for Biology, shouldn't you have won that instead?

Dr Venkatraman Ramakrishnan There is, it is called ''Physiology or Medicine'' and the ribosome work could have been awarded for that. I think the Nobel committee generally awards the Chemistry prize for high resolution molecular structures.

Che: Dear Sir, how you compare India's research infrastructure to that of the West! Any possibility in the near future that such ground breaking work be done in India?

Dr Venkatraman Ramakrishnan I think in good institutes, the infrastructure is improving quite a lot. There is already world class work being done in India, and my feeling is that eventually there will be more of it. But this takes time, and requires developing a broad culture of excellence.

DNA newspaper: A time frame of how much? And what do you foresee in the future - Is science, research and technology the solution to all problems?

Dr Venkatraman Ramakrishnan My feeling is that this is highly related to the question of how the Indian economy improves. Science is expensive, and historically countries have started excelling in science as their economy has grown, whether it was the industrial revolution in Britain, or the growth of the USA or Japan. But I am hopeful it will happen in the next few decades.

Swapnil Dikka: did you ever thought about you holding a Nobel prize in your hand?

Dr Venkatraman Ramakrishnan I think every young scientist dreams of this possibility at some time or another, but most of us don't really imagine that we would actually get one. So I have to say sometimes I still think I'm dreaming.

Umesh: Any suggestion for a rural boy of INDIA [B.E(E&CE)Grade] so that I can follow your way to reach this destiny?

Dr Venkatraman Ramakrishnan I do not think you should think in terms of destiny. I think you should just try to do what interests you, find the best career you can, enjoy your work and then see what comes.

Nimisha Mundade: What did science teach you?

Dr Venkatraman Ramakrishnan I think what one learns from science is how complicated Nature is, and we are rather ignorant. So it does teach us some humility.

Ramesh Jain: As you got deeper into your research findings, did it take you closer to getting more spiritual and understanding ''God''?

Dr Venkatraman Ramakrishnan I am sorry, but if anything, it teaches me that there is a rational explanation for most things. I think science and religion are completely different things. Science is based on observation and rational thinking, and religion is based on personal beliefs and faith. People can have both.

Kumar: Is getting a Nobel prize is your ultimate goal, or there is any other thing you want to achieve?

Dr Venkatraman Ramakrishnan I think scientists want to make an important contribution. It is not about getting a prize, although of course it is wonderful if that happens. I would like to understand the real details of how ribosomes work, but that will be done by many different scientists working all over the world.

R. Prasad, Science Editor, The Hindu, Chennai: How right is it to measure the quality of one's work by the number of papers published in high-impact journals? Many institutes use this as a measure while deciding promotions. Your comments.

Dr Venkatraman Ramakrishnan This is a terrible world wide problem. It is because those deciding on promotions etc. do not want to take the time and energy to make an informed judgment of their own. The worst thing about this is that one can publish a mediocre paper in a high impact journal and get more credit than for an outstanding paper in a less prestigious journal.

DNA newspaper: SIR may I repeat my questions please -- Is it true that Indians are likely to succeed in areas like research because of paucity of funds and infrastructure back home? How can youngsters be encouraged to take up research after graduation? Can there be a way to incentivize research?

Dr Venkatraman Ramakrishnan I think there are many ways to encourage research, but this requires a cultural change. When society values scientists who are dedicating their lives to it for much lower salaries, etc. then more young people will want to go into science even if they don't get paid as much.

Nimisha Mundade: Do you think a scientist need to achieve a Nobel prize to become famous?

Dr Venkatraman Ramakrishnan Not at all. But this is a problem the press needs to understand. There are many great scientists who have never won a Nobel prize, because a single prize simply cannot acknowledge all the great work that is done.

Swapnil Dikka: While starting this project, weren't you scared of failing, were you confident about it?

Dr Venkatraman Ramakrishnan It was both scary and exciting at the same time. If you absolutely know you are going to succeed, then it is really a bit boring and not at the cutting edge.

R. Prasad, Science Editor, The Hindu, Chennai: Do you still see large number of students taking up basic sciences? That is not the case here in India, and what can be done to promote basic sciences. Your comments.

Dr Venkatraman Ramakrishnan One thing that encouraged a lot of very bright students in my generation was the National Science Talent Search Scholarship. This was prestigious, had special summer programs, etc. and was restricted to basic sciences. Perhaps something along those lines will help.

DNA newspaper: Today's careers are driven by money. Considering the low salaries researchers get, can they really be motivated enough?

Dr Venkatraman Ramakrishnan I don't think scientists care a lot about money. I took a 40% pay cut to move to England because the MRC lab had very stable funding. However, it is important to pay scientists well enough so they don't have to constantly worry about money and are secure, because this frees them to think about their research.

Kant Dudeja: Sir did you face any family problems while working on your research?

Dr Venkatraman Ramakrishnan No, I was very lucky that my family was very supportive and were willing to follow me around from one place to another while I sought the best conditions for my research.

HindustanTimes: Just based on your own experiences; do you think young people see science as a desirable career choice? Does it vary by place?

Dr Venkatraman Ramakrishnan I think it is hard for young people to choose science unless they care passionately about that kind of life, because you can make more money in medicine, engineering, management etc. This is a world wide problem. But the fact is that there are always brilliant young people willing to take part in this life. I think humans are intrinsically curious, so that will always be the case.

Priscilla: How hard is it to make a mark in science if you have not been educated in English? In India, do we need to improve the scientific resources available in regional languages, or to shift all scientific education to English from an early age?

Dr Venkatraman Ramakrishnan I think because English is the international language of science, it is very important to become fluent in it, and those who are not are at a disadvantage, because they will find it more difficult not only to communicate but even read textbooks, papers, etc.

Vijayakumar S: Sir, your advice for Indian Students.....

Dr Venkatraman Ramakrishnan Follow your interests, have confidence, and do not feel insecure about advanced countries.

DNA newspaper: Sir, Will having newer IIT's and IIM's help India make a mark globally? Like is being planned by the government? What is the next project you are working on?

Dr Venkatraman Ramakrishnan Yes, certainly, but I think there should also be more institutes (preferably within university campuses) for basic sciences, modeled after the IISc, TIFR, NCBS, etc.

DNA newspaper: India still lags behind several countries in terms of research output and the number of institutions engaged in high-end research are few in number like the IISc. How can this problem be addressed?

Dr Venkatraman Ramakrishnan I have said I am for more broad based support including IISc like institutes set up in universities across the country. But this will take money. I hope now that the Indian economy is improving this will happen.

Gauridutt: Do scientists of your status get time to play some sport ?

Dr Venkatraman Ramakrishnan Yes, I take time off to go hiking, running, etc. I used to play table tennis. It is important to have physical activities in addition to work.

Kant Dudeja: Sir what expectations do you have from your child and many other children in INDIA?

Dr Venkatraman Ramakrishnan I want my children to be happy. My son got a physics degree but is now a musician. One shouldn't force them according to one's own idea of success.

AnikaG: I often look through papers published by international collaborators. People of Indian origin (like yourself) are well represented in such collaborations, but actual Indian scientists often are not (lagging behind researchers in China and S. Korea, to name a few). Any thoughts on why this might be?

Dr Venkatraman Ramakrishnan I think China puts a lot money into research than India does, partly because it is a bigger economy. Proportionately S Korea is also richer. I hope that this will change and India will be able to support science in a big way.

R. Prasad, Science Editor, The Hindu, Chennai: The co-ordinates of a ribosome are available in public domain. Companies use them for making drugs (and huge profits). Your comments.

Dr Venkatraman Ramakrishnan So far nobody has made money on it. However, the coordinates are also licensed by Yale and the MRC, so if they do, we will get some return on the investment. But more generally, the US and UK have found that without the profit motive, it is very hard to translate basic discoveries into useful applications, so in the long run it benefits society.

Priscilla: In the US, a lot of university funding comes from alumni donors. The IIT's have recently started tapping into alumni networks as well. How can more Indian institutions and scientists attract donations -- especially those that don't have government funding?

Dr Venkatraman Ramakrishnan This is a good idea, but it is hard work to get sufficient money from donors unless the institution already has a very good reputation.

Priscilla: Which scientists were you most fascinated by as a young student?

Dr Venkatraman Ramakrishnan Probably the great physicists like Newton, Gauss, Planck, Einstein, Feynman. Later I read the double helix by James Watson and became interested in Watson and Crick.

Guest 3: Would you ever come back? Work in India?

Dr Venkatraman Ramakrishnan This is very difficult for personal (family) reasons. But I'd be happy to come periodically as I have in the last few years and do my best to interact with and encourage young people.

AnikaG: You've become such a big role model, not just for kids but for people across India. How do you feel about that role?

Dr Venkatraman Ramakrishnan People should not see me in that role but rather develop internal confidence. But I hope that people feel happy about the fact that someone from India, who got their basic education in India, could go on and do well internationally.

Kumar: We know that science is to help the community, but some time it may harm, if not short term may be in long term. What a scientist has to do when he comes to know that on which he is working has long term side effects on our community but is very useful in short term. Does he has to go ahead and publish his research, knowing that many industrialist can make use of his research in just making profit. What your opinion?

Dr Venkatraman Ramakrishnan This is an excellent question and one that worries scientists. Ultimately the use people make of scientific discoveries is a problem for the larger society. In general I am for free publishing, but if say something could be very dangerous that would need some thought.