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Deepak Gupta, Somnath Biswas & Ajit Chaturvedi

Professors & spokespersons, IIT Kanpur

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Joint entrance test for engineering colleges

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Do you think that the dilution in IITs started when they changed to the objective type of format. Should not they focus on subjective evaluation with a huge emphasis on raw intelligence as it cannot be trained in any coaching? Asked by: Akshat Shankar
this is something many of us also feel in the same way. One way out could be that top 50000 ranks from proposed CET could be adminstered this type of exam and then ranks could be used by not just IITs but everybody who likes.
Why IIT Kanpur is against the proposed Common Entrance Test (CET)? Asked by: Anu
because it will lead to more stress for students and parents because it will adversely affect the school system because it will lead to a bigger market for coaching the new proposal is ill conceived
Before 2001, JEE paper used to resemble Olympiads where even if one scored more than 25%, one used to secure position in an IIT. With questions checking on raw intelligence and application of concepts, it was difficult for Coaching to 'train' aspirants. Don't you think that IITs should revert back to such a format which favours those who are bright rather than those who are 'trained'? Asked by: Mansi Goel
We just answered a very similar question, please read that...
What is the need of joint entrance test? what i think if the government wants to improve the quality of the engineers it should remove the reservations.Should not the government focus on improving the quality of students entering the colleges or making it more easy for the category people to enter into Prestigious institution?? Asked by: najeeb
well this is a separate issue....we can discuss it separately
The entire IIT alumni is proud of the stand taken by IIT Kanpur Senate. Would it be a good idea to separate original IITs from the IITs which have been produced by the UPA Government for political reasons? Asked by: Rahul Sharma
I don't this so...there is certainly a need for a large number of quality institutions in such a large country. New IITs is a step in right direction
Dear Sirs, I have small query why IIT are against single exam for all engineering institute in india. It will benefit for students / parents as they fill many forms for all engineering exams and in todays world it cost almost 10000 to fill all forms. how do you think it is wrong ? Asked by: Anand Pal
too many exams are bad but a single exam is even worse because of the stress it will cause. If for some reason a student is unable to perform on that day, he/she will lose a full year. Two-three exams may be an ideal number. In any case, the current proposal forces all 12 lakhs AIEEE aspirants to also appear for JEE type exam, which is unfair. Currently only 5 laks students appear for JEE type exam. So 7 lakhs uninterested students will have to give an extra exam.
Do you think that there is a conspiracy to kill the brand IIT so that foreign universities are benefitted when they enter the Indian education market? Asked by: Manuj Goyal
I have no specialized knowledge to know this...
hello sir...wat r the criteria 4 aeronautical engineering???? Asked by: phurba tsering lepcha
it is also through JEE
Are the Directors of IITs appointed by the Government or chosen by the Senate? How can the Directors who head the Senate take a different stand from that of the Senate? Asked by: Akshat Shankar
Directors are not chosen/selected/elected by the Senate. They are appointed by the Government.
Do you think that it would be good idea that the entrance examination only ensures admission to the IITs and the department is allocated based on the performance in the first year? Asked by: Akshat Shankar
this is something we have talking about internally. There are pros and cons both. It will have to be seriously debated before taking up.
We want to congratulate you for the stand taken on this issue. Is there some help the alumni can do for the cause of saving the autonomy of the IITs? Asked by: Swapnil Sharma
Thanks. Yes the alumni can be of immense help through several fora and also through the media.
Would marks scored in English be also included in the Board component of the proposed CET? If that be the case, would it not hamper the chances of people from rural areas? Asked by: Sumit Gupta
The current proposal is to consider all five subjects, whatever they are. In many boards, english is not compulsory. So choose your board accordingly to your best abilities, if you have a choice.
will the committe provide an nri quota in IIT? Asked by: rahul kumar
I don't think...
Dear Sir, First of all, thank you very much for taking a brave step against MHRD proposal of single exam. Sir, I believe, there are flaws in existing +2 exams itself.I feel there are numerous reasons to cancel this exam. 1. Flaws in +2 system. Involvement of corruption, scandals in board exams. 2. Stress increase for students not preparing for IIT. Sir, How is format of BITs Pilani. I personally feel that it is better to raise cutoff of students in +2 marks for IIT entrance. You may consider 70% marks in boards in +2 for IIT entrance. In this way, it also secure +2 schooling. I mean, purpose of including 40% is clearly to discourage coaching which i personally feel cannot be achieved. But if the cutoff is raised significantly, then it may hamper coaching. Asked by: Ankit Garg (Alumini IIT Guwahati)
Thanks....you have raised several issues which need deliberation and discussion. It will be nice if the experience of students like you can be summarised in a document and be made available for debate.
can we repeat cbse exam to improve our chances Asked by: rahul kumar
I don't know...
Sir,the IIT council feels that by encouraging single examination the qualities of their institution might come down. But what I dont understand is why all the attention is focused on these institutes only. Why arent the NITs and IIITs speaking out(certainly we cant ignore out the famed NITs which are keeping up with IITs and in some areas even ahead of them)? One more thing to remember is that such things dont happen in US where every university though deemed or not happens to select students from a common test like SAT! Isn't it a shame that it happens like this in our country? Asked by: V Raghunath
SAT is only one of the criteria. Further, even in SAT they have to appear in 2-3 subject SATs or ACTs, in addition to the general SAT and all these are taken on different days.
What are the advantages and disadvantages of keeping Joint entrance test for engineering colleges? Asked by: Harihar Patra
I think considering children and parents and their expenses, 2-3-4 examinations for all access to all engineering colleges in the country would be best. One will be too risky and too many obviously not good.
Most of the Board examinations only cover topics taught in 12th and ignore the portions taught in 11th. Do you think that such evaluation promotes students to give more importance to certain topics rather than learning the entire subject? Asked by: Ankit Jain
this is true in several boards.
Don't you think that the present percentile scheme for mormalization is a kind of quota for each board? Do you think it would force students to move to boards with less competition compared to boards with higher levels of competition? Asked by: Mansi Goel
Broadly yes, to your first question. However, it's necessary to consider such questions in terms of real data from all boards-- unfortunately this has not been done yet, although this step was suggested by the ISI expert committee, which had mooted the use of percentile scores in the first place.
It seems that the real reason for people to oppose a joint exam is because the IIT faculty and alumni feel that their brand value will be diluted. Do you are justified in this view for you benefit and to the detriment of the students? Asked by: Anil
That is not correct. We believe that the proposal will hurt all stakeholders i.e. students, parents, schools and IITs. The only sector likely to benefit is the coaching sector. Also, if you feel that the brand of IIT will be affected, don't you think this should be a concern for people outside IITs as well. Personally I don't think this is a matter of brand.
All the students are quite happy that you have taken such a brave step. Students should be given at least two years time before a change is made to the process. Do you think that there is haste in having the change by 2013 as 2014 is the election year? Asked by: Ambrish Dwivedi
Thanks. We do believe that there is undue haste. The reason for that is not clear.
Why MHRD has announced that all IITs have unanimously agreed to the proposal? MHRD has tried to kill the IIT System through destroying the Autonomy of IITs and tried to impose new proposal over IITs. We demand our PM to directly intervene in the matter and save IITs The new entrance policy is full of ambiguity .IIT Community is against the new proposal. MHRD should immediately roll back it's decision and stop interfering with IIT System. Asked by: Prince
Thanks for your support.
instead of organising test for one IIT, can all IITs combine to conduct JEE again? Asked by: kush
Yes, why not...we are actually quite hopeful of that.
SAT is really a good way to judge a student. why dont all nits and IITs promote SAT2?? Asked by: rahul kumar
Ramasami committee had indeed suggested a SAT like test. However, such a test cannot be set up overnight-- consider normalizing verbal component across many Indian languages. We do feel work should start in earnest for an Indian SAT like examination. Till then, one should not replace validated examinations like JEE and AIEEE with half-baked solutions.
I am personally not in favour of considering +2 marks for admission to IITs.If at all this is going to be considered, will there be some kind of normalisation of marks like how it used to be previously in BITS? This would lead to a lot of regional domination in IITs, since the +2 total marks for various curriculums are different. Asked by: Divya
Like you, we have several concerns with respect to the normalization process that is being proposed. We hope that the proposal will not be pushed through.
Sir, what do you say about the effect of common test on colleges apart from IIT (like NITs). Because the focus of the media being on the IITs nowadays and that this could mean something really bad for the fame of AIEEE(which is still in fact the exam in which highest population of engineering aspirants appear more than jee) it would be nice if u give your view on this. Asked by: Alexis Chowdary
We agree that the focus should be on both and both are in national interest. So both need to be nurtured.
Hi, why is it that we dont see such protests from IITs when it comes to putting pressure on govt to increase the number of such institutes, which i what is truly needed to keep off coaching? (since, we obviously have a lot more eligible candidates than there are seats, and only some of these candidates manage to go to good coaching institutes that give them that extra edge over others) Asked by: Guhan
Indeed we need many more quality institutions in our country. However, it is not easy to do so. The old IITs all helped in the setting up of the new ones, as you know, many new IITs started functioning from the old IIT campuses.
But students will be confused with, as which college they need to join,and may be the status and reputation of a college may degrade with increase in rank of students,I mean higher rank with low profile students? Asked by: Harihar Patra
Yes that can happen
The ISI committe had suggested that only Science Subjects (PCMB)should be used to compute the percentiles. In fact the analysis clearly showed that percentiles from 5 subjects were not stable. Then why the proposed CET uses all the 5 subjects for the computation of the percentiles? Asked by: Akshat Shankar
In their recommendations, ISI committee had suggested further analysis on data from all boards over a number of years. This should have been done.
If you say one test puts pressure, why dont you demand for 2-3 tests(common) in a year? Asked by: Jaipal
We are indeed for 2-3 tests for entrance. But, if you mean same exam, twice or thrice a year, then normalization strategy has to be well thought out and tested before implementation.
Congratulations for the brave step you have taken. Do you think that legally Senates are the ultimate authorities or somehow the minister would be able to prove that the IIT Council also has a say in the admission process of the IITs? Asked by: Rajul Gupta
Thanks. Yes the matter of admissions comes under the purview/authority of Senates. This will stand the test of law and there is no need to worry on that count.
Hi Didn't you raise your differences with Kapil Sibbal initially?He should not have gone public if there was no consensus. Asked by: Dileep
He very well knew the official positions of the Senates of various IITs. Why he still went public, that I cannot answer for him.
sir , what will be the difficulty level of the common entrance exam. How they will decide it . Because till now the difficulty level is a reflection of the standard of the respective institute. Asked by: gautam
mains is proposed to be of AIEEE level and advanced is proposed to be at IIT-JEE level.
Sir, Don't you think that giving weightage to +2 marks would increase cramming habits among students and also benefit the students from boards where direct topics are asked in question papers? Asked by: Pradeep Kaushik
That may be true. There are several other problems as well with respect to giving weightage to +2 marks.
Dear Sir, Congratulations to IIT K for standing up against the proposed exam system. Are you also trying to convince the directors/senate of Madras, Guwahati, etc? What is the progress on that? Asked by: aneesh
thanks.... yes we are in touch with other IITs
IITians.org salute to IIT Kanpur Senate for taking the lead to save the Autonomy of IITs. Entire IIT Community is proud of IITK Senate. The entire IITians.org community which has more than 40,000 follower hats off to IITK. Go ahead sir and please convince other IITs to unite together to save the Autonomy of IITs. Asked by: IITians.org
Thanks for your support. We are indeed hopeful of conducting the exam jointly with other IITs as done till now.
For people in this forum who believe that SAT should replace JEE, it should be remembered that till 2002 admission to IITs used to happen using SAT score too (DASA). Was it not the case that the SAT students used to under-perform JEE students because of which the scheme was discontinued? Asked by: Akshat Shankar
SAT may not be the reason for under performance of DASA students. This set came from a much smaller pool of population
If students will be confused,or may the college reputation will be degrade,then why we will go for Joint entrance,though it minimizes the expenses? Asked by: Harihar Patra
can you elaborate your question
Sir, dont you think that even erstwhile IIT JEE was not suitable for entrance to 5 years integrated M.Sc particularly in Mathematics. Shouldn't there be a different entrance for the science program as the current aptitude test checks the engineering aptitude? Asked by: R Agarwal
In any case, engineering is not Phys. Chem. or Maths. We test in these subject because these are subjects a student has studied at school level, whether for engg. or MSc entrance.
But students will be confused with, as which college they need to join,and may be the status and reputation of a college may degrade with increase in rank of students,I mean higher rank with low profile students?--As you answered as it may happen...then why we will go for this Joint exam? Asked by: Harihar Patra
I am answering many people, so it is hard to keep track of the context, or what you had asked earlier...hence your question is not clear...please keep each question independent.
There was a discussion about the new JEE at IITG. In that discussion, everyone including faculty as well a s students were against new JEE. Yet their director claims that IITG has no problems with it. Why this corruption? Asked by: Shreedhar
Sitting here in IITK, we have no way of answering this.
IITs belong to different league. Accordingly there are engineering colleges which fall into different leagues based on their institute quality. So it is better to create such say 2-3 leagues and conduct separate test for each.(proposal here is not to have 'n' number of leagues but few) This would help in appropriately setting questions for each league of colleges. Again,students just don't go stressed up for a single entrance test. They would better know which league of entrance test they should try according to their level. Here students have wise choice to make from few. And not confuse them with too many choices. Asked by: Beaver
similar to something we are also saying..JEE-IIT is made tough because you are trying to sort out students at the top. AIEEE is little less tough, because it fills the next level. Then state exams are still easier as they fill the next lower level...