Click to play videoIn just a few days India will begin voting for the next government. On Battle For India, the two biggest national parties, Congress and Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP), debated on how and why their party was best-suited to lead the next Central Government. Congress was represented by noted lawyer and senior leader Kapil Sibal, BJP's representative too was a lawyer of repute, Arun Jaitley.
The two participants have been grilled on four major issues: governance, security, economy and stability.
Issue of governance
Kapil Sibal opened the debate by giving reasons as to why one should vote for the Congress by saying that only the his party along with its partners in the United Progressive Alliance (UPA) was capable to providing peace, economic growth and stability to the country.
“One of the fundamentals of governance is peace and tranquility in the country and I think Congress party has given five years of peace and tranquility. We haven't had any real communal tension; we have had a steady economic growth rate. We have had an average growth rate of around 8.6 per cent in comparison to NDA's growth rate of 5.8 per cent. We have brought jobs into the system. We have also touched each section of the economy so this growth has been inclusive. It's not been an exclusive growth. We have invested in social sector heavily, our investment in education sector has gone up by 400 per cent. Our investment in health has gone up and we did not have a politically divisive agenda as far as governance is concerned. We have passed historic legislations like the Right to Information Act, like the National Rural Employment Guarantee Scheme,” said Sibal.
Jaitley countered Sibal by claiming that the UPA Government has been indecisive on major issues.
“The primary task of a government is governance and governance requires decision making. In last five years this government went searching for consensus. Four and half years they couldn't take a single major economic decision because the Left censured most of the decisions. The last six months when the economic crisis was at its worst, there is nothing they could do. As far as security is concerned you have 67 cities in this country being blasted by militants in the last five years. You had a government with a policy that security must be linked up with not making India secure but perhaps making it weak by linking it to vote bank considerations,” Jaitley argued.
Sibal hit back saying it was the BJP-led national Democratic Front government that failed to put the country on the fast track of economic growth.
“If there was no decision making how could we have a growth rate of 8.6 per cent? Economy grew at nine per cent for four years and according to him there was no decision making. When growth rate was 5.8 per cent it was not despite governance? Their growth rate was because of governance and our nine per cent is despite governance?” he asked.
Jaitley replied saying that the period from 2004 to 2009 was the worst in economic decision making.
However, Sibal came up with more numbers to counter Jaitley’s arguments.
“The last Budget presented by his government was Rs 4 lakh crore. The Budget presented by UPA was Rs 9.5 lakh crore. This could not have come about because of lack of decision making. Revenues grew at an unprecedented rate. Agriculture production was a historic high of 230 million tonnes. Average agricultural growth rate in their time was less than two per cent, it was 3.6 per cent during our government. He is giving no facts and figures. He is just talking. I am giving facts and figures. Let him deny it,” Sibal challenged Jaitley.
Now Jaitley was asked why should one vote for the BJP on the issue of governance?
“More farmers have committed suicide in last five years than earlier. Food price inflation in this country is still 10 per cent. Why I say you must vote for us for the simple reason is the country requires a strong leader who is capable of decision making. You require an alliance which has certain elements of coherence in it, which doesn't block government's decisions. You require a security policy which fights terror. You require a government where in economic decision making you don't get bogged down by your own contradictions and you are in a position to take the country forward. The NDA record of the previous six years in all these matters was far more glorious that UPA's,” he he argued.
Sibal once again challenged his rival to come out with facts and figures to prove his claim.
“All words no facts. Take any sector of the economy and we can compare when they were in power and we were in power,” Sibal said.
The UPA promised administrative reforms when it came to power in 2004. What has been its biggest achievement on that front?
“The RTI. It has changed the nature of administration. Everybody is accountable and you can file an application and get whatever facts you want from the government. You can go and challenge the government and say this is a wrong policy. The kind of transparency we have brought, his government never dreamt of,” Sibal pointed out.
Jaitley argued that there was no transparency in the UPA Government.
“Right to Information was debated for the last 10 years but as far as accountability is concerned you have had more cover up on corruption in the last five years. You have a government with seven tainted ministers,” he said.
Sibal retorted that the biggest cover up in this country was Tehelka.
Infrastructure has been a big stumbling block for India. What is the UPA's stand in building infrastructure?
"We have set up the India Infrastructure Financial Corporation. We have a rural connectivity programme in Bharat Nirman which is far more complex and comprehensive programme than any other in the country. The kind of infrastructure that is being development was never done before. Look at airports. New airports at Delhi, Mumbai, Hyderabad, Bangalore and 25 more airports are coming up. We have an Infrastructure Corporation in which Rs 75,000 crore will be taken from markets. As far as road programme is concerned I congratulate him but that's not the only thing,” said Sibal.
Jaitley pooh-poohed Sibal’s claims saying that many infrastructure projects were languishing.
“The Golden Quadrangular 99 per cent completed. After the NDA government the North-South and East-West programmes' performance in 38 per cent. Rural roads programme have slowed down, in ports complete clogging,” he claimed.
Sibal shot back saying that during NDA’s time the railways was in loss and now it was making profit.
Security and India
How is the BJP better place on the issue of security?
India's battle against terrorism and national security didn't began in 9/11. In fact 15 years prior to that we have been on the radar of the terrorists... whether it was cross-border terrorism emanating from our western border, whether it was certain pockets where there is Maoists influence, whether it was LTTE, whether it was the North-East.
The trend of various governments has been to strengthen our security machinery, our administrative responses, our intelligence, our administrative and legislative frameworks in order to deal with terror. There were attacks during NDA governments but the security responses were much faster and the whole object was to gear up the system. Unfortunately the UPA and Congress at that stage carried on a campaign that all this is anti-minority, this is not for national security. Having fallen into this trap from 2004 till 26/11 they perpetuated that false propaganda, became prisoners themselves and finally had left India completely unguarded till the terrorists came through the sea route and attacked us. We don't link up security with votebank politics and our records speak for ourselves,” said Jaitley.
Sibal countered Jaitley by saying that NDA’s only agenda was to target minorities using anti-terror laws and inspite of their tall claims they failed to prevent terror strikes and even bowed before terrorists releasing three in Kandahar.
“Their whole politics on terror and security was POTA. They did nothing as far as the administrative machinery was concerned. They never restructured the intelligence agencies other Parliament would not have been attacked while POTA ordinance was in place. Akshardham would not have been attacked. They would not have delivered terrorists through Kandahar to Pakistan especially Maulana Azhar who ultimately formed Jaish-e-Mohammad and attacked Parliament. None of this would have happened. All kind of incidents took place when POTA was in place. Their politics of security was POTA not realising that they were actually targeting a community. POTA is meant to convict terrorists, they can't prevent terror attacks,” said Sibal.
Jaitley said that POTA was a just law and it was the Congress that failed to execute those convicted under it.
“This is very poor alibi for a weak government on national security. Yes, Parliament was attacked but unlike what happened on 26/11 you didn't have armed security forces and commandos who couldn't get rid of them for the next four days. In Parliament attack all terrorists were liquidated, people behind the conspiracy arrested and convicted by the judicial process because there was POTA. Unfortunately Congress didn’t have the courage to execute them. In Akshardham attack all terrorist were killed,” said Jaitley.
Sibal laughed off Jaitley’s argument saying when terrorists attack the government fights them and does not extend an invitation.
“What kind of argument is this? You have to kill terrorist. When terrorist attacked you had to kill them. You can't invite them to Parliament. There is no choice with you. You have to kill them. Parliament was so badly guarded that they came in to the precincts of Parliament. What kind of intelligence did they have and they are talking about security?” he asked.
Jaitley was asked what is the need for a new law as promised in the BJP manifesto as it seems to be an election tactic?
“This is not an election tactic. Anti-terror laws don't prevent terror. Terror is to be prevented by intelligence and security responses. Anti-terror law only steps in once terrorists have come in, and it is speedier and surer machinery for convicting them. You had an anti-terror law in place in 1987 when TADA was enacted and Rajiv Gandhi was the Prime Minister. The campaign against TADA started after the Mumbai blasts in 1993 because some people were arrested. The campaign was that TADA was no longer a secular law and get rid of it. They got rid of TADA. When POTA came in, they carried on the same campaign against it. After 26/11 they were forced to bring in an anti-terror law, with some what inadequate material. We will strengthen by a new law or by amendments but you need to make a law which has teeth in it,” said Jaitley.
Sibal argued that a law must be tough but it should also respect the Fundamental Rights of a person.
“Mr Jaitley for the last many years has been arguing against the UPA saying you must bring back POTA and in his manifesto there is an admission that POTA has been used against innocent people and when they come into government, they will improve the provision of POTA. They have for the first time admitted that POTA was being misused against innocent people and that is exactly what we were saying throughout. You need a tough terror law but you need a human face also,” he said.
Did it take 26/11 for the UPA to bring amendments to anti-terror laws?
Sibal argued: “Those amendments are consistent with constitutional rights. We must not place laws in this country which destroy constitutionalism, which destroys Fundamental Rights of the people. Even in US, Obama has realised that what happened in Guantanamo was terrible and therefore he has got rid it.”
The battle against terror is not only about laws but also about police reforms. Isn't police reforms must to fight terror?
Sibal said, “That's there in our manifesto. Yes we are promising the voters of India that police reforms, when we come back to power after May 16, is going to happen.”
Jaitley again blamed the UPA for not taking national security seriously.
“Post-Kargil the GoM on National Security made several recommendations, some of them were implemented but post-2004 not a single police reform has taken place on national security,” the BJP leader said.
Handling the economy and job losses
Which party is best prepared to handle the economic downturn and the fear of more job losses?
"Let's be clear on one front that the Congress' performance on the economic front has been historic. We have had four years of nine per cent growth and this year we have had 6.9 per cent growth because of the recession - despite which we will be the second fastest growing economy in the world. Other countries will be in far deeper trouble. If you look at the US, 50 per cent of their workforce has been retrenched. In Japan and China, 35 per cent of the workforce has been retrenched. In India it has been only 13 per cent. That does not mean that the global economic crisis has not affected India. It just means that because of our strong economic and banking system, because of our careful policies and because we have kept our checks and balances in place, our economy is still okay," Sibal said.
"I think the tragedy of being in the government is that you spend too much on propaganda and end up buying your own propaganda. You are now in a situation where people are losing more jobs than ever, industries are closing down, new entrants are not finding jobs, farmers are committing suicide, in a recessionary environment food prices are still going up. Since December 1, 2008, the crisis has been the worst and not a single meeting has been held by our Finance Ministry and not a single significant step has been announced in the last four months," Jaitley retorted.
To this Kapil Sibal said that the problem with Jaitley and his party was that it was only words, words and more words bereft of all facts.
"We have given out three packages in the last four months and we have put in Rs 3 lakh crore in the system. Let him deny this. There have been cuts in VAT, excise duties, export credits, telling housing sectors to start reducing their prices, to start building houses at cheaper costs - 1.75 lakh houses have been constructed. So we have done a lot of things for the economy and in fact now what is happening is that the Jawaharlal Nehru Urban Renewal System has put in Rs 39,000 crore into the system," he stated.
"When the global slowdown and the subprime crisis was taking place, financial institutions in the US were closing down, the slowdown was at India's doorstep, who advised this dream team in the Government to start sucking liquidity out of the market? The result of this was that you had no money left in the market, service sector industries closed down and there were job losses. Now the Government has to bring down the interest rates, give a fillip to the housing sector and the real estate sector. Now the Government must get into the infrastructure in a big way. That is the situation," Jaitley said.
Sibal said if the BJP was so concerned with the global economic crisis, why was there not a single word about what they planned to do about it in their manifesto?
Jaitley snapped back saying that one has to think in terms of lowering interest and taxation rates. "You are a high tax Government. We want more money in the pocket of the consumers."
To this Sibal said that lowering taxation rates would make things worse.
Social justice versus the economy
Young people feel that when you speak of reservation, what happens in a job-scarce market? Will the best not get jobs?
To this Sibal said, "While India is moving forward, there are two Indias here. One is a six-lane highway and one is an unpaved road. We need to make both Indias come together and all of India needs to move forward at the same time and I think any Government in power with any element of sensitivity must take care of those who cannot take care of themselves so we need to give reservations to people, we need to invest in the social as well as the agricultural sector. I think that it is then absolutely necessary to give waivers to farmers. The BJP has said so in their manifesto that if they come to power, they will waive off all farmer loans."
The two agreed that both their parties were committed to providing food to the lowest sections of the population and to the right to food to the people of this country.
Stability and leadership
Which party can provide stability to the country?
Jaitley said that leadership was the art of taking decisions. "It is not the art of survival without taking decisions because decisions may prove to be controversial. Leadership is not the art of deferring decisions for the want of a consensus as we have seen in the last five years. We are in coalition politics and stability is required when a core group of an alliance is reasonably large and clear on the direction in which they want to take the country in. Unfortunately the Congress has a lot of allies - a lot of whom are not friendly with them now - all of whom have now taken a very flexible position and are now out to teach the Congress a lesson. It is a battle which began much prior to the election and I don't think UPA is capable of providing any form of stability."
Sibal responded sarcastically by saying that he wanted to congratulate the BJP leaders for their decisiveness. "They took a decision when they were in power and sent our troops to the border for 11 months and then called them back. They took a decision to send terrorists who had attacked us back to Kandahar. If this is decision-making then congratulations to you."
He clarified that despite everything that had happened all the UPA allies were now firm on the fact that if people voted for the party, they were voting for Dr Manmohan Singh as their prime minister again.
Jaitley shot back saying that in Uttar Pradesh, Bihar and Jharkhand, the Congress had allies but no alliances. "In Maharashtra the Congress has an ally (NCP's Sharad Pawar), who is sitting with them but taking part in someone else's (Third Front and Left) rally on the telephone, in West Bengal they have an ally (Mamata Banerjee) who will first watch which way the Left goes and then make her decision and in Tamil Nadu they have an alliance which probably is not capable of winning any seats in the first place. All their allies want to be a part of the next government and have positioned themselves to see who wins and will then decide which way to go," he stated.
Sibal retorted back saying the BJP had 24 allies when they were in power and now they were reduced to six.
"Where are those allies now? Ajit Singh with seven seats in Uttar Pradesh is a big ally? Chautala with seven seats in Haryana is a big ally? I suggested the other day that they should have promulgated their manifesto after May 16 because they know that they have to sit in the Opposition and they should have a manifesto of how constructively they would perform as an Opposition," Sibal shot back.
He said that there was no Third Front till the elections would be over. "Please tell me who is where in the Third Front? Mayawati is fighting somewhere in West Bengal, other candidates are fighting somewhere else."
Jaitley cut in saying that at the moment the Congress was busy fighting not the Third Front but the Fourth Front. "One of the Fourth Front is a former ally who offered them three seats in Bihar, the other offered them some six or seven seats in Uttar Pradesh and finally the strategy of that Fourth Front is let us bring down the Congress to 110 seats so that the last five years I worked with you and the next five years you work for me. That is the strategy," he stated.
One reason why India should vote for the BJP
Jaitley said, "I think the directions of the government will be clear, the responses of the government will be clear, the leadership has clarity, is experienced, is determined and will be decisive. The leadership won't waste five years for want of consensus before taking decisions particularly on the front of economy and security."
One reason why India should vote for the Congress
Sibal said that he would like to response to this only in two sentences. He said, "Hamara Bharat sabka Bharat, inka Bharat adhura Bharat Congress' India is everyone's India whereas BJP's India is an incomplete India".)
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