No ego hassle between me and Fennell: Kalmadi

Four weeks ago when Suresh Kalmadi and the Commonwealth Games Federation had a major quarrel, it looked as if the relationship between the two was about to break up. Where does it stand today? That's the key issue Karan Thapar pursued with the Chairman of the Organising Committee Suresh Kalmadi.

Karan Thapar: There is a widespread view that after your bold and defiant stand against the Commonwealth Games Federation in Delhi, you did a U-turn in London and came back to India a chastened man. Is that view correct?

Suresh Kalmadi: No, that's not correct. The Games are more important. Whatever differences were there between the Indian Olympic Association (IOA) and the Commonwealth Games Federation was sorted out in a meeting between Mike Fennell and the IOA.

Karan Thapar: At that meeting between Mike Fennell and yourself in London, did you give in or did you give Mr Fennell to give in to you?

Suresh Kalmadi: For both sides it was give and take. Finally, we reached an agreement and we had a joint statement and the matter is over.

Karan Thapar: There is a widespread perception that you gave in all the way down the line and that Mr Fennell got everything he wanted.

Suresh Kalmadi: That's not true. And I don't want to comment more on that. It was give and take on both sides and we have reached total agreement.

Karan Thapar: Let's come to the major issues of differences between you and the Commonwealth Games Federation and ask you where those issues stand today. To begin with, there is Mike Fennell insistence on an independent technical review panel. Will that be starting work in January as Mike Hooper has said or is it now on hold waiting a further decision?

Suresh Kalmadi I don't want to discuss any of the issues between the Commonwealth Games Federation and us because that's the understanding that we have reached. We both are not going to talk about it.

Karan Thapar: I am simply asking you to tell me at this point whether an independent technical review panel has been appointed and will function or whether that decision is on hold. What's the situation?

Suresh Kalmadi: I don't want to discuss it because we have resolved the issue. There is a coordination commission which is coming and all the decisions will be taken after that and we will have another meeting with Mike Fennell and all these things will be decided.

Karan Thapar: This was a major issue four weeks ago, it came to the attention of the Indian public. Fennell said he wanted an independent panel, he insisted on it, you were equally insistent that such a panel could not happen, you rejected it. So the Indian people have a right to know where does the issue stand.

Suresh Kalmadi: You will come to know after December.

Karan Thapar: Is it a secret?

Suresh Kalmadi: Yes, we have decided not to talk about it at all.

Karan Thapar: What will happen in December?

Suresh Kalmadi: In December, the Coordination Commission is coming to India. After that, Mr Michael Fennell is coming. That time we will have another meeting and all the issues will be coming up then.

Karan Thapar: Mike Hooper, the CEO of CGF has gone public to say that from January onwards the independent technical review panel will start functioning. Is that going to happen?

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Suresh Kalmadi: Mike Hooper is entitled to his views. Whatever is to happen will be decided by me and Mr Mike Fennell.

Karan Thapar: But you said he (Mike Hooper) is entitled to his views, is his view correct or wrong?

Suresh Kalmadi All I can say at this stage is that we will decide these issues after Mr Mike Fennell comes to Delhi, after the Coordination Commission meeting.

Karan Thapar: It sounds to me as if you are not wanting to say that come December, this panel will come into being, you simply want to draw a curtain over it till December. Is that the situation?

Suresh Kalmadi: Yes, that's the understanding me and Mike Fennell have reached.

Karan Thapar: Let me put it like this. Mani Shankar Aiyar, the former sports minister and his BJP counterpart Vijay Goel, both from Congress and the BJP have publicly and repeatedly said that either an overseeing commiittee or an apex committee, directly under the charge of the Prime Minister must be appointed to oversee your organising committee, given that the major political party seems to agree with an idea that is almost identical to Mr Fennell's idea. Doesn't it look as if come December, Mr Fennell will get his way?

Suresh Kalmadi: It's not major political parties. You are talking about two individuals. The political parties have different views. Let me say that the Commonwealth Games was started at the time of the BJP when Atal Bihari Vajpayee was the prime minister and Dr Manmohan Singh is there now and they are giving full support to the organising committee in organising these Games.

Karan Thapar: You refuse to tell me what the position regarding the independent panel is, you are saying it will become apparent in December. You are not going to say, but I am just repeating that Mike Hooper insists that work will begin in January and most people are of the impression that Fennell has got his way. You have just been given a little face-saving time between now and December.

Suresh Kalmadi: That's not true at all. You will come to know about the whole story. CGF and Mr Fennell will be here and you will come to know about this.

Karan Thapar: The second major issue between yourself and Mike Fennell, as it blew up all over in the front pages in October, was his insistence that foreign experts should be appointed in certain specific fields to help the organising committee. Again, in October, you said you were not going to have foreign experts. In fact, one of your colleagues called this an 'imperialist idea'. Today, where does that issue stand? Are foreign experts being appointed or has the idea been dropped?

Suresh Kalmadi: Well, we have already got 50 foreign experts in various categories and we feel those foreign experts are required. Whether it's for catering, for opening ceremony, broadcast or for venue operations, we have got the best in the world and they are all in place. As far as the competition managers are concerned, that's only where the games are new to us like netball, lawn balls or rugby, international managers are there. But for rest of the events, we don't have international managers.

Karan Thapar: Can I clarify what you are saying? Are you saying you've already got 50 foreign experts so you won't take on more, therefore, when Mike Fennell insists you take on more, you are saying no to him or are you saying that you've already got 50 and you have no problem taking on more if Mike Fennell insists for more.

Suresh Kalmadi: I am saying that we have 50 foreign hires and we have reached total agreement with Mr Mike Fennell on the foreign hires who should come here and all of them are in place.

Karan Thapar: So in other words, you have agreed to the request or demand made by Mr Fennell in October that he wanted more foreign experts in certain specified fields, you have agreed to that?

Suresh Kalmadi: No, we have already got the foreign hires, all of them are in place.

Karan Thapar: You are saying that Mr Fennell was asking for something that you had already done?

Suresh Kalmadi: We have already done it.

Karan Thapar: Now you have already done it. You mean to say after he asked for it and between then and now you have done it?

Suresh Kalmadi: We have just added two or three more.

Karan Thapar: But you have added two or three?

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Suresh Kalmadi: Yes. What is required for the Games to be successful, we have done it and there is no controversy between the Commonwealth Games and the Indian Olympic Association.

Karan Thapar: You said a very important thing. You said now we have added two or three, which suggests to me, and I am asking you to clarify it, that you have changed from the position you took in October. In October, you had said no more foreign experts, now you are saying you've added two - three.

Suresh Kalmadi: When there is 50 in place, two - three is not a big number.

Karan Thapar: It's not a big number but you refused to have even that two - three in October; that is the concession you have made.

Suresh Kalmadi: No, they have agreed that as far as the new games are concerned – netball, rugby – we can have the foreign consults but in other events like shooting, weightlifting, or archery where Indians are already well placed, there is no need for foreign managers. I am telling you between me and Mike Fennell, it was give and take, whatever is in the interest of the Games we have all got it without any ego hassles.

Karan Thapar: You have said two or three times that it was give and take but I am not so sure who's doing the giving, but let me reiterate the point you made because it is important. You have agreed to take on two - three foreign experts and to that extent, the position you took in October that you weren't to take anymore has in fact been conceded. You've changed it and we have taken two - three more.

Suresh Kalmadi: Whatever is in the interest of the Commonwealth Games we have accepted it.

Karan Thapar: Absolutely. The ‘Asian Age’ says that you told the group of ministers on November 15 that there were a few areas that you called 'delivery risk areas' and you itemised ceremonies, technology, ticketing, venue development and venue operations. Will you be taking on further foreign experts in these areas to tackle the deficiency?

Suresh Kalmadi: No. All the foreign experts are there. Now the workload is increasing in that.

Karan Thapar: This is part of two - three areas that you have taken extra people?

Suresh Kalmadi Yes.

Karan Thapar: Let's then come in the third big issue that in a sense captured the public attention more than any other. The quarrel between yourself and Mike Hooper, the CEO of the CGF. In October, you publicly, loudly and repeatedly said that he must be recalled from Delhi. He hasn't been and it doesn't look as if he will be. So, is this an area where Suresh Kalmadi has conceded to Mike Fennell?

Suresh Kalmadi: If I have conceded anything, it's in the interest of the Games and for the country. As far as Mike Hooper is concerned, we have had discussion with Mike Fennell and in both sides there's give and take.

Karan Thapar:You began your answer very interestingly. If I have conceded anything, it's in the interest of the Games, that means to say that you have conceded over Mike Hooper?

Suresh Kalmadi: I have conceded, Mike Fennell has conceded on various issues. I can't tell you what Mike Fennel has spoken to Mike Hooper.

Karan Thapar: On the Mike Hooper issue specifically, you have asked for his recall, it hasn't happened. It means that you have made the concession?

Suresh Kalmadi: No, but I can't tell you what Mr Mike Fennell has spoken with Mike Hooper. Now things are alright. Me and Mike Hooper are meeting quite regularly and things are moving forward. In the interest of the Games, I am ready to take one step back. Let me tell you that much. I have no ego on that.

Karan Thapar: In the interest of the Games, you are ready to take one step backwards, so you concede that you have taken a step backwards?

Suresh Kalmadi: I have not taken a step back, I can't tell you details of what happened there.

Karan Thapar: There's a very interesting thing that you are suggesting, I just want to point it out. You accept that because Mike Hooper is here because he hasn't been withdrawn as you demanded. Clearly you have conceded and accepted that he will stay here but you add that there are somethings that Mike Fennell has said to Mike Hooper which constitute a concession that Mike Fennell has made -- that you can't reveal to me?

Suresh Kalmadi: I cannot because of the understanding between the two. We have come out with a joint statement and we have decided not to talk to the media.

Karan Thapar: But you are suggesting that there are certain decisions that Mike Fennell has taken which has perhaps restrained Mike Hooper or ensured that his behaviour will be different to what it was earlier. That's what you are hinting or suggesting?

Suresh Kalmadi: I am not hinting at anything. You can ask Mike Fennell. He is going to come here next month.

Karan Thapar: Do you have any regrets about all that has happened? It blew up in to a big story, questions were raised about your own credibility and personality. Today, four weeks later, when you say this issue has been resolved, do you have regrets about all that happened? Let's first start with Mike Hooper. You called him an impediment, you said he was a hindrance and you even said he was of no use. Do you regret that personal attack on the man?

Suresh Kalmadi: Listen, I made no personal attack.

Karan Thapar: These are personal things?

Suresh Kalmadi: May I speak? I am grateful to you. It was a decision of the Indian Olympic Association. That morning the meeting was of the executive committee of the Indian Olympic Association and I was the spokesperson who spoke to the press. So it was not a personal attack. We only said he was not useful at that time.

Karan Thapar: You said that - actually I am now quoting ‘The Hindustan Times’ on October 12 - he was of no use, he was an impediment, he was a hindrance to me. But now you are saying to me that these aren't Suresh Kalmadi's personal terms, these are the terms of the Organising Committee?

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Suresh Kalmadi: Of the Organising Committee - the executive board which met of the Indian Olympic Association - these were passed in that.

Karan Thapar: So, the IOA and the Organising Committee, both, were actually being personal. Suresh Kalmadi wasn't being personal - these two bodies were personal?

Suresh Kalmadi: These are not personal remarks at all.

Karan Thapar: These are personal.

Suresh Kalmadi: It was just done in the interest of the Games. That's all.

Karan Thapar: But these are personal.

Suresh Kalmadi: Anyway, now these issues are sorted out. I won't like to raise them again.

Karan Thapar: Do you have regret that either you personally or the bodies who you represent used these terms. Do you regret that?

Suresh Kalmadi: No. I have no regrets about anything. Let me tell you, what has happened has been in the interest of the Games and now both sides are dealing with each other in a more mature manner. So I am happy.

Karan Thapar: But one another thing that stuck people 's attention, in fact it was seen all over their televisions screens was that on your behalf, officials of your institutes and bodies, almost physically denied Mike Hooper the right to speak to the press in these offices. And secondly, you darkly hinted to the ‘Indian Express’ yourself that you might even take away the office that he has. Many people thought that was wrong and unjustified. Would you agree?

Suresh Kalmadi: Let me tell you. Nobody asked him not to speak to the press.

Karan Thapar: Lalit Bhanot (Secretary General of the Commonwealth Games) said he couldn't do it from these offices.

Suresh Kalmadi: Yes. We said that sitting in the Organising Committee office, he should not speak against the Organising Committee.

Karan Thapar: Lalit Bhanot looked as if he was going to physically stop him?

Suresh Kalmadi: No, no. That's your view, but he was being very gentle.

Karan Thapar: Do you regret that sort of behaviour?

Suresh Kalmadi: No, whose behaviour? But not Lalit Bhanot, he was very courteous.

Karan Thapar: Lalit Bhanot said he was acting on your behalf. He even said that he was hurt on TV saying it.

Suresh Kalmadi: He only said that don't speak in the Organising Committee. You want to speak then speak it outside.

Karan Thapar: But do you regret trying to stop a man whether physically or not because it seemed unseemly and unnecessary?

Suresh Kalmadi: No, that was whole thing only made by the media. Lalit Bhanot was very courteous and all my members of the Organising Committee are courteous to Mike Hooper and I am been courteous to him, there is no question on it.

Karan Thapar: Let me put to you the conclusion many people came to when they saw the dispute between you and Mike Hooper. They said Suresh Kalmadi is behaving like a spoilt child, he is attacking the messenger because he doesn't like the message.

Suresh Kalmadi: No, I always like a message. If there is a message to be done I will do it for the sake of the country. It has to be done.

Karan Thapar: Do you like the message that Mike Hooper was giving to you in October?

Suresh Kalmadi: No, I don't want to get into these issues because we have closed the controversy and the matter is over. I don't want to revive it and the matter has been settled very amicably.

Karan Thapar: I can understand. You're insisting that the controversy is closed and you don't want to revive it. But the reason I am persisting is because major Indian newspapers like the ‘Indian Express’ and the ‘Business Standard’ wrote leaders and the ‘Business Standard’ in particularly called you a national embarrassment. Are you embarrassed? You are been called an embarrassment to the country?

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Suresh Kalmadi: I mean you media people can write anything. It's all up to you. But I can say we are all working for 24 hours and we are going to give you a great Commonwealth Games. That's it.

Karan Thapar: But did it hurt to read that the newspaper thinks you are an national embarrassment?

Suresh Kalmadi: I mean it's up to the newspapers, they can write anything and say anything. I not affected by that. If there is anything good which I can take from media, I will always think it as positive news.

Karan Thapar: So the problem in fact during that period and ever since then. And since then there has been nothing good in the media about you. Many leaders have suggested that you have lost your credibility.

Suresh Kalmadi: Well, at the end of the Games I would like you to have another interview of me and just see the credibility is there or not, after the Games are over. I am just telling you it's going to be the best Commonwealth Games ever. No doubt about it. Everything is in top gear.

Karan Thapar: You’re saying to me therefore that whatever the question marks in the press about you, your behaviour or credibility at the end of the Games, that is to say in just under a year's time by November 1, 2010, will be restored. That's what you have said?

Suresh Kalmadi: I would like you to have another interview with me and there will we talk about it.

Karan Thapar: So you are absolutely confident that you’re going to produce such an excellent 2010 Games that the question marks about you will completely disappear?

Suresh Kalmadi: You see its team work, it's not about one individual organisation.

Karan Thapar: But are you saying yes or not. That's my question?

Suresh Kalmadi: I will tell you. It is the support of the Prime Minister of India, the Government of India, the Government of Delhi, the Lieutenant Governor and my Organising committee and my IOA, we are all working as a team and we will produce great Games.

Karan Thapar: Let me put you like this. You keep saying that the Prime Minister and the Government and everyone are working as a team with you. The Problem is that the second impression in the press is that the Government slowly and quietly is in fact sidelining you. They have pointed Jarnail Singh as CEO of your Organising Committee. They have appointed three senior IAS officials to work with him, a sub-committee has been formed to monitor and regulate the financial matters and in fact, now the Group of Ministers have announced they will meet regularly every two weeks to monitor the progress. To many people those are signs that the Government far from trusting you is trying to sideline you, they may have left you because they don't want to embarrass you but they are bringing in new people to do the job.

Suresh Kalmadi: Let me tell you that the Government is supporting me fully.

Karan Thapar: How do you know that?

Suresh Kalmadi: Take it from me. The second thing is that I have been asking the Government for many officers to come in. Finally they are starting to give me officers.

Karan Thapar: You asked for Jarnail Singh to the Government?

Suresh Kalmadi: Yes, I have asked them for him.

Karan Thapar: So Jarnail Singh has come as CEO at your request?

Suresh Kalmadi: Yes, on my request.

Karan Thapar: So, what about the finance sub-committee?

Suresh Kalmadi: Let me answer the first question. I will answer your questions so that you are fully satisfied. All the officers have come at my request and I have also asked for a lot of people from Army. About 50 people are joining from the Army as well and so we have asked people from public sectors, private sectors and from the Government as well. They will do the work which they are supposed to do. So I am happy with this coming year. About the finance sub-committee, I would like to say the Government has increased the budget from Rs 700 crore to Rs 1,600 crore and they have put committees to look into the financial matters. I am very happy on that.

Karan Thapar: So, there have been no suggestion that the committee has been put there because they don't trust the way money has been extended?

Suresh Kalmadi: No, no let me tell you. I have had three CIG reports and in all these reports there is not one line about the Organising Committee.

Karan Thapar: So the inference in the press is unfair?

Suresh Kalmadi: Absolutely unfair.

Karan Thapar: Let me then come to the last issue. There are many ordinary Indians, people who are actually going to be the audience for the Games, people for whom these Games has been happening, now millions of them are saying that may be Suresh Kalmadi is in his own interest or in the interest of the Commonwealth Games should step aside.

Suresh Kalmadi: There is no question of my stepping aside. These Games have been allotted to the Indian Olympic Association and it is doing a great job. There is no question of stepping aside when only eight months are left for the Games. Nobody is going to run away from these Games. We are going to do it and will present the best Games ever. We are determined about that.

Karan Thapar: When you say the best Game ever...

Suresh Kalmadi: Pardon?

Karan Thapar: What do you mean, when you say the best Games ever?

Suresh Kalmadi: Because, earlier there had been lot of Commonwealth Games and I am saying that these Games are going to surpass all those Games. We are going to do it in big way.

Karan Thapar: Is this just big talk? Is a man under pressure speaking big to defend himself?

Suresh Kalmadi: No, no. I don't believe in talking big. That's why I want you to have an interview with me one year after the Games are over. We will then talk about it.

Karan Thapar: That's a challenge. I would definitely take it up.

Suresh Kalmadi: Yes.

Karan Thapar: Suresh Kalmadi, a pleasure talking to you and wish you good luck for the Games.

Suresh Kalmadi: Thank you.