Click to play videoIslamabad: Pakistan Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani believes his country and India must not be held “hostage to one incident”--the 26/11 Mumbai terror attacks--and they must hold dialogue.
“Billion people should not be made hostage to one incident. If we are hostage to one incident then the beneficiaries are terrorists and therefore we should move ahead,” Gilani told CNN-IBN in his first TV interview after the Mumbai terror attacks.
Transcript of the Interview
Suhasini Haidar: It’s the first interview, Mr. Gilani, that you’re giving since 26-11. Indo-Pakistan ties deteriorated in 2009. Your hope for 2010?
Syed Yousuf Raza Gilani: When I met Dr. Manmohan Singh in Sharm-el-Sheikh, that was a very good meeting. We discussed all issues and we had an understanding that we both are suffering from terrorism and therefore 1.25 billion people should not be made hostage to one incident. If we are hostage to this incident, that means the beneficiary is the terrorist, therefore we should move ahead. We agreed that in the [United Nations] General Assembly there would be a meeting of the federal secretaries. That did take place. And then there was a meeting of the Foreign Ministers in the General Assembly during the session.
...Things are stuck with the Mumbai incident, and the matter is sub judice before the court. Certainly we condemn terrorism and we always believe that neither Pakistan’s nor India’s soil should be used against each other. We are the victims of terrorism and we are fighting the war on terrorism... I think composite dialogue is the only answer... We both are responsible nations... we can only move forward ... we cannot afford war... The people are very poor and we have to watch their interests as well. And the only way forward is talks...
Suhasini Haidar: Do you see it materialising in the near future... in 2010?
Syed Yousuf Raza Gilani: I believe politics is a day-to-day affair, and I’m hopeful we will move forward for a composite dialogue.
Suhasini Haidar: Mr. Gilani, after the IPL auctions did not take Pakistani players, there seems to be another downturn. Pakistani leaders are calling for boycotting Indian films and sports, the Election Commissioner has cancelled his trip... Has Pakistan overreacted?
Syed Yousuf Raza Gilani: That’s the mood of Parliament and the public. We’ve to follow their point of view as well. With time things would be all right.
Suhasini Haidar: Cricket has always meant a lot to the people of the two countries.
Syed Yousuf Raza Gilani: I agree. There has always been cricket diplomacy even in the past.
Suhasini Haidar: Cricket, in a way, leads to better people-to-people ties.
Syed Yousuf Raza Gilani: Yes, we need people-to-people contact at all levels. Recently the Speaker of our National Assembly visited India and she had an excellent meeting with the Speaker in India. They discussed about more interaction with parliamentarians. That would really help and defuse the situation.
Suhasini Haidar: The hockey team is supposed to come for the World Cup. Will that be impacted as well?
Syed Yousuf Raza Gilani: We’re considering that, but [I] can’t comment at the moment.
Suhasini Haidar: In the past week, your statement to the U.S. Defence Secretary that Pakistan cannot prevent another Mumbai-like attack... In India there was a negative reaction to that...
Syed Yousuf Raza Gilani: My statement during that time was a reaction to some of the comments made by the Indian leadership - that if there is any incident in future we will bracket the non-state and state actors together and hold the government of Pakistan responsible. I was of the opinion that if there is any information we are ready to share [that] with India… that should pre-empt… And if India has any information, they can share with us... We are ready to [do] any intelligence-sharing or any sort of information [exchange].
Suhasini Haidar: Are you saying there are many groups you cannot control?
Syed Yousuf Raza Gilani: No, I’m saying that don’t bracket terror groups with the Government of Pakistan. If you have information it is better to share [it] with us so that we can jointly resolve the issue.
Suhasini Haidar: In past years, the kind of comments you’ve made... the kind of comments from the Indian leadership... something gets lost in translation... because the direct-dialogue process does not exist...
Syed Yousuf Raza Gilani: That’s the way forward... We insist on a composite dialogue only because there are statements from both the countries. They’re creating more confusion.
Suhasini Haidar: Fourteen months after the Mumbai attacks, the discourse is still stuck... What will it take to move it forward? India wants more concrete action on the 26/11 trial.
Syed Yousuf Raza Gilani: In fact, we had asked for further information so that we should strengthen the case. We’ve already registered the case, the matter is sub judice before the High Court, and if more material is given to us and more sharing is done with us, it will definitely help us.
Suhasini Haidar: What specific type of information are you looking at...? India has handed over six dossiers...
Syed Yousuf Raza Gilani: We appreciate that, but at the same time we ask for something more, and that you can discuss with the Ministry of Interior.
Suhasini Haidar: Pakistan is in complete denial that any of the attacks could have been by Pakistani nationals... That’s from where relations took a downturn over the Mumbai attack... Pakistan could have looked at the nationality of the attackers, or held comments until they have been established...
Syed Yousuf Raza Gilani: There was the Mumbai incident, within a few minutes they said that Pakistan was involved - without investigation. How can you jump at a conclusion when there is no investigation… that was our reaction.
Suhasini Haidar: It took some months for Pakistan to establish the identity of the attackers.
Syed Yousuf Raza Gilani: We’re still asking for further information, and we condemn it. We’re extremely serious that it should be taken to justice and further information is shared with the Ministry of Interior. That would help us.
Suhasini Haidar: Do you think India has been stalling on giving information?
Syed Yousuf Raza Gilani: I haven’t said that, but at the same time, through the Foreign Office, the Ministry of Interior, they really want some more facts and information that can lead us to positive things.
Suhasini Haidar: So you have charged at least seven men who are being tried... You have arrested more…
Syed Yousuf Raza Gilani: Yes, we did.
Suhasini Haidar: What about India’s demand that Mr. Hafiz Saeed, the head of the Jamaat-ud-Dawah, must be tried and prosecuted?
Syed Yousuf Raza Gilani: He is already under trial.
Suhasini Haidar: He has not been arrested?
Syed Yousuf Raza Gilani: That has to be decided by the court.
Suhasini Haidar: Would your government be open to India’s request on Hafiz Saeed...?
Syed Yousuf Raza Gilani: We needed further information about that incident, and at the same time we need more evidence to put him to task. One thing I must tell you, when we met Manmohan Singh it was a good meeting and he really wanted to discuss all [the] core issues including water, Sir Creek, Siachen, Kashmir, including interference in Balochistan. He said I’m ready to discuss anything and we had mutually decided that yes, the dialogue is the only answer. But he had tremendous pressure in his own country, his own Parliament, and that can be [the] only thing which has stalled this composite dialogue.
Suhasini Haidar: We did have a joint statement... All the reactions which have come ever since on Balochistan seem to have taken the process down…
Syed Yousuf Raza Gilani: I disagree with you because when we discussed those issues, the two Prime Ministers were meeting... Not the meeting of junior officers who were discussing, who had some perceptions… We were very careful in wording all these things and we took three hours...
Suhasini Haidar: Was including Balochistan in the talks... a mistake...? Pakistan has not provided any evidence...
Syed Yousuf Raza Gilani: We can provide everything at an appropriate forum and appropriate time.
Suhasini Haidar: But you’re convinced there is Indian interference in Balochistan?
Syed Yousuf Raza Gilani: Yes, I’m convinced… That’s the reason I raised it with the Prime Minister.
Suhasini Haidar: And what was his response on that?
Syed Yousuf Raza Gilani: He said we’re ready to discuss all issues when we’ll have a composite dialogue.
Suhasini Haidar: So why did the Sharm-el-Sheikh process get stalled?
Syed Yousuf Raza Gilani: In fact I mentioned in the beginning that it was a very good meeting. It stalled only because of Indian public pressure and Parliament.
Suhasini Haidar: There’s a sense in India... that President Zardari is seen as a dove on India-Pakistan relations and Prime Minister Gilani is seen as a hawk on India-Pakistan relations... Are you a hawk?
Syed Yousuf Raza Gilani: It’s the same party. We have a manifesto and we want to maintain excellent relations with our neighbours. And I was the first one who took [an] initiative [on] that in Colombo. I called on Prime Minister Dr. Manmohan Singh myself, and then I called on President Karzai myself... That was a request from my side: that I want to meet you. And that’s an indication that we want to resolve all our outstanding issues and that we want friendly relations with our neighbours. Therefore the perception is not right.
Suhasini Haidar: India doesn’t seem keen at the moment on the composite dialogue. What about back channel diplomacy?
Syed Yousuf Raza Gilani: I think the composite dialogue is needed. Back channel diplomacy would not be that useful. We need direct talks, we want to resolve issues. We don’t have to complicate issues.
Suhasini Haidar: What of the contentious issue of Kashmir?
Syed Yousuf Raza Gilani: In fact, when we’ll resume the composite dialogue that can be discussed.
Suhasini Haidar: In the past weeks, there has been firing across the LoC and increased terror attacks in Kashmir.
Syed Yousuf Raza Gilani: In fact, there had been some irresponsible statements from the army chief of India. There is tension because of that. And at the same time it’s an indigenous movement in Kashmir that does not have anything to do with Pakistan. We’re too busy in our own matters. We want a resolution of the Kashmir dispute.
Suhasini Haidar: You’ve made statements that the soil of Pakistan will not be used for terrorism. How can you be sure?
Syed Yousuf Raza Gilani: Our soil will never be used for terrorist activity.
Suhasini Haidar: In the new year the Foreign Ministers had a meeting in London... Is it going to lead to a resumption of dialogue…?
Syed Yousuf Raza Gilani: Certainly dialogue and communication is the only way forward to dispel lots of misunderstandings.
Suhasini Haidar: There is a SAARC meeting in April... Any possibility of your meeting the Prime Minister then?
Syed Yousuf Raza Gilani: If we both attend, there is a chance...
Suhasini Haidar: Dr. Manmohan Singh has often said he would like to visit his native village Gah in Pakistan. Would you like to visit India?
Syed Yousuf Raza Gilani: In fact the last visit was of General Musharraf, when he visited India… We would welcome Mr. Manmohan Singh to Pakistan. I’ve been in India several times. I [attended] the funeral of Rajiv Gandhi, [and visited] Ajmer Sharif with Benazir Bhutto… And there are old cultural ties with India.
Suhasini Haidar: Do you see in the next year those ties being made stronger?
Syed Yousuf Raza Gilani: I think so, we’ll try.
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