Click to play videoHe is the face of the Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP). He is one personality who has made himself an issue in this election. CNN-IBN flies with BJP prime ministerial candidate Lal Krishna Advani on his campaign trail and finds out what does this election really mean to him.
Advani speaks on the functioning of the UPA Government, Manmohan Singh's performance, India's response to 26/11, relations with Pakistan and USA and BJP manifesto.
Diptosh Majumdar: The campaign has picked up; we are almost into the elections. Now that we have different shades in campaign you are being projected as one single leader in the BJP while the Congress camp is projecting three leaders together. What do you have to say about that and how do you see it matching up?
L K Advani: I recall that in 2004 even though no one was projected from the Congress as the PM candidate, from our side there was no doubt that our leader will be AB Vajpayeeji. The universal presumption was that if the Congress is able to get a majority, it will be Sonia who will be the leader.
When Soniaji along with letters from various parties supporting Congress, went to the Rashtrapati Bhawan and spoke outside Rashtrapati Bhawan and made that statement about 272 members supporting her party, everyone presumed that its just a going and giving all those letter and coming back with an announcement. Till today what transpired between Soniaji and the President is a mystery for all of us.
Even those who have been close to Dr (APJ Abdul) Kalam, they keep on guessing what must have happened and what he must have been said. But suddenly after she came back there was a total change and then Manmohan Singh became the Prime Minister.
No one had expected Manmohan Singh to become Prime Minister. That should be kept in mind. Manmohan Singh becoming the Prime Minister of the biggest democracy in the world was not something that people were prepared for.
Diptosh Majumdar: So you believe in the world's largest democracy there cannot be a nominated prime minister?
L K Advani: There cannot be a nominated prime minister, there should not be. And if it is then we have to change the equation between the elected parliament and the party which compose the government. The party cannot run a government.
Diptosh Majumdar: How has it affected the functioning of this government in the past five years?
L K Advani: It has affected very seriously. I have known cases where the PM has proposed for some course of actions but he is not able to implement it unless he gets clearance from the Congress party President and you can see it patently sometimes, very clearly that this happens.
Diptosh Majumdar: What you are trying to suggest is the fact that Sonia’s renunciation was actually not a renunciation. She has done a lot of backseat driving.
L K Advani: I have never regarded it as renunciation, though I have admitted to you that it is a mystery as to what exactly transpired in Rashtrapati Bhawan when Sonia met Dr Kalam. But the change in attitude that I will not be prime minister but Manmohan Singh will be prime minister came after that meeting.
Diptosh Majumdar: But the Congress would claim that Sonia wielding real power and Manmohan Singh running the government has worked really well for them and probably there have been a credible face with a section of voters.
L K Advani:: Maybe, because people are not concerned with these intricacies. Everyone knows, even the Cabinet ministers know that merely Manmohan Singh saying something is not the last word. The allies know it; this situation has come about because Manmohan Singh voluntarily abdicated the authority of the post of prime minister.
b>Diptosh Majumdar: So he allowed the belittling of the institution?
L K Advani: This is my complaint; he should not have. Therefore, it is that some of the statements that he has made is harsh, because he knows that what I am saying is the truth.
Diptosh Majumdar: On the surface there was no mixing of party and government, but Atalji and L K Advani also complemented each other. So why criticise Manmohan and Sonia.
L K Advani: No, but both (Vajpayee and Advani) were in government. The primacy was hardly in doubt - it was the prime minister. Apart from age, in ability he (Vajpayee) is far superior to me. And in acceptability to the people, which is a very important facet of democratic leadership.
It is one thing which made me realise, that I may have - because of this Ayodhya movement - suddenly developed a mass profile, become well known but there is no comparison between me and Atalji. And, therefore without consulting anyone, not in the Sangha, not in the BJP.
Diptosh Majumdar: 1995?
L K Advani: 1995 - I took that decision. And there were people close to me, who were very unhappy with me.
Diptosh Majumdar: Sir, you have been exceedingly modest about yourself, but the fact remains that being the leader of a body politic at a time when elections were becoming increasingly fragmented, leadership will become a huge issue.
L K Advani: May I tell you, I remember when I announced it at the Shivaji Park meeting, there itself Atalji told me “kya kiya aapne? kyun kiya? Mujse bhi nahi pucha, mujhse to puchte". Maine kaha aapse puchte to aap haan kehte kya? (What have you done? Why? You should have asked me.)
Of course, he said what he said because he felt it that way. But I have never regretted it, ever. And I feel that, by and large at that time despite Ayodha, my image in the people was that of a party organiser, a capable organiser but essentially an ideologue, not a mass leader, though Ayodha has changed it. And I think I did the right thing.
Diptosh Majumdar: But you evolved from there, sir. Your politics didn’t stop there.
L K Advani: I have evolved and I may even mention that the difference of image that I had at that time - a hardliner, either this or that.
Within myself I think isse party ko nuksaan nahi hua ke unki liberal image hai, meri hardliner ki image hai. Aur iska agar nuksaan hua hai to wo aage chal kar ke mujhe hua hai, jab main Pakistan gaya aur maine jinna waali baat kahi. (I have a hardliner image but it has not hurt the party. It hurt me when I went to Pakistan and made that statement on Jinnah.)
By and large I have been honest to myself and I have not tried to say something only in order to acquire a certain image.
Diptosh Majumdar: Now let me come to this question. Varun Gandhi has happened, the hate speeches have happened you have protested against the way the Election Commission sent out the advisory, which you thought was a very one-sided decision , very unilaterally taken. But at the same time you have not condoned Varun Gandhi at all. So you are moving the party probably to a middle ground where you can bring in a larger section of people.
L K Advani: I am not doing it in order to bring in a larger section. I'm doing it because i believe in it. Even in the Rath Yatra I remember there used to be a very perceptible variation, difference in the speech delivered by me and the speech delivered by Pramod and I had to reconcile it.
Wo kahenge ye ram ka vaan hai jo somnath se chala hai aur ayodhya tak pahunche bina isko koi duniya ki taakat rok nahi sakti. main uske baad kahunga ki dekho ye Pramodji jo bhi keh rahe hai na wo acha lagta hai uspar log khush bhi hote hai but main aapko ye batana chahta hun ki ye jo mera rath hai aur ye jo mera vaan hai ye ek Toyota hai aur iss vehicle ko sarkaar rok sakti hai mujhe jail main daal sakti hai, isiliye ye maan kar chalna ki ye har haalat main jaakar ayodhya pahunchega main inse sehmat nahi hun. Toh mujhe aa kar ke log kehte hai ke tum rath ko Toyota bana dete ho kyun usko wo kar rahe ho.
(Pramod would say this chariot is like a bow and will reach Ayodhya. No power in the world can stop it. Then I would clarify and tell people this is not a chariot or bow but a Toyota truck which the government can stop anytime.)
Diptosh Majumdar: I'm coming to larger issues now, which you are raising. Handling of the recession may be different but larger broader economic views between the Congress and the BJP in the future there is not going to be too much of a difference.
L K Advani: After the break away from the licence permit quota raj there is not going to be much of a difference.
Diptosh Majumdar: Your manifesto is out. What will the BJP government do on terror when it comes to power? The Taliban is almost knocking at our doors now. What is the BJP's special plan at this point of time?
L K Advani: The party which is outside government cannot make a correct evaluation of the kind of situation that has developed in Pakistan. And therefore, the first and foremost task of the government would be to make an assessment of who controls Pakistan. Is it the Army or the Inter Services Intelligence? Only after the assessment, we can think of a policy of India towards Pakistan in its present state. We should be able to get a clearer picture from Washington also.
Diptosh Majumdar: You mean India should not be allowed to be dictated by US at all.
L K Advani: We got a feeling of being dictated only when Manmohan Singh was there, because his responses to nuclear agreement seem to serve their interest, not our interest.
Diptosh Majumdar: Do you feel that after the Mumbai attacks (26/11), India should have been more proactive than waiting for the guidance from Washington?
L K Advani: That too depends upon what is our assessment. A party or leader outside the country would not be able to make a correct judgement on the basis of which we could say alright bomb the training schools because there might be no training schools.
Diptosh Majumdar: How would you assess the entire role in Kasab case which is being played put by Indian Government Is it indecision or clever diplomacy?
L K Advani: I think it is more of indecision and absence of one single person who takes decision at the helm of affairs. But this is certainly proved that for the first time in an attack of this kind a person involved in the attack has been captured alive.
Diptosh Majumdar: Is it possible in a new tenure, if you win, to have open dialogue with the minorities because they are really falling behind?
L K Advani: Yes, it is possible. Because today I say this is today that when our term ended in 2004 I had discussions with several Muslims and I said to them that after all that happened in Ayodha, does anyone of you think that a Babri mosque will be created once again, I said I can tell you this won’t happen. Why don’t you yourself offer a temple to be created.
Diptosh Majumdar: I was looking at your rallies, Chhattisgarh is your strongest state. Most of your states are saturated. Now that there are few days to go to polls, are you feeling the limitations of BJP's geography?
L K Advani: No, I expect substantial gains in Maharashtra, Bihar, Jharkhand, Himachal Pradesh, Gujarat to some extent. And I know the parties which might not be with me today but cannot join the Congress will be with me tomorrow.
Diptosh Majumdar: Are there back channel talks with Mayawati or Jayalalitaha?
L K Advani: Yes, with Jayalalitha.
Diptosh Majumdar: People will want to know this therefore I am asking this to you, this is an off repeated question. Who will be there after you? Whom are you grooming?
L K Advani: There can be no one after me, not at least at this stage; it is not fair. Let people come up to a level to be acceptable to all.
Diptosh Majumdar: So there would be spontaneous acceptance but people would see Narendra Modi campaigning so much this elections. So he is attracting a lot of attention.
L K Advani: No, because by his administration and by the manner in which he collected investment from all parts of the country he did earn a very good reputation. As a result of which Rajiv Gandhi Foundation praised him to the skies and Vivek had to quit.
Diptosh Majumdar: What is your honest hunch about May 16, the counting day?
L K Advani: The BJP will emerge as the largest single party.
Diptosh Majumdar: If you were to grade elections according to the verbal abuses which are flowing among the politicians, would you rate this as the worst?
L K Advani: I haven’t hurled abuses in any of my speeches, I haven’t done it all my life. Even in the so-called Rath Yatra , where I was suppose to be making fire speeches, I didn’t. I have often said that as I am often described as anti-Muslim… you point out one single statement of mine which can be regarded as anti-Muslim or anti-Islam.
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