DEVIL'S ADVOCATE | KANIMOZHI
Font Size 
'Father was quoting Valmiki when he said Ram drank'
Published on Sun, Oct 14, 2007 at 21:58, Updated on Sun, Oct 14, 2007 at 22:17 in India section
Tags: Devils Advocate, Kanimozhi
Related Stories
Photogallery
 |  |
Has the Tamil Nadu Chief Minister M K Karunanidhi blundered in his political response to the Ram Setu controversy? Why has he been misunderstood and misinterpreted by the press? That’s the essential question Karunanidhi’s daughter, DMK MP Kanimozhi, was asked on Devil’s Advocate.
Karan Thapar: Let’s start with your father’s comments about Lord Ram. ‘Who is this Ram? Which engineering college did he study in and become a civil engineer? When did he build this so-called bridge?’ Can you accept that to the hundreds and millions who worship Ram as God, both the tone and the content are deeply offensive?
Kanimozhi: You will have to put it in the right perspective and look at the whole issue. He was not trying to insult anybody or hurt anybody’s religious sentiments. In Tamil Nadu, we come from a culture that questions and is open to criticism, be it culture or anything else.
I would like to quote from a poem by Kalamega Pulavar. He belonged to the 17th century during the Nayaka rule. He talks about Shiva who is a healer in a particular temple. So he asks, ‘You have not been able to cure yourself. You stand on one leg. Your son Ganesh has such a big stomach and Vishnu, who is supposed to be your brother-in-law, is in water all the time. How are you going to cure the whole world?’
Karan Thapar: You say that there is a context in which your father spoke and that he wasn’t criticising. The problem is that four days later, your father went one step further. He called Ram a drunkard.
Kanimozhi: He did not call him a drunkard. He said that Valmiki says that Ram drank.
Karan Thapar: Did he not use the word kudikaran?
Kanimozhi: No, no.
Karan Thapar: According to The Indian Express he did.
Kanimozhi: He said that Valmiki says he drank. So, he is just quoting Valmiki.
Karan Thapar: Is the Express report wrong?
Kanimozhi: He just called him a person who drank.
Karan Thapar: What the Express says and I’ll quote, ‘A transcript of his media interaction, faxed to newspaper offices later that afternoon suddenly dropped the word ‘kudikaran’, implying that he used it, realised his mistake and changed it.
Kanimozhi: I don’t know, I haven’t seen the report that says that he used that word.
Karan Thapar: September 21, The Indian Express.
Kanimozhi: I didn’t see the Express, I saw the other papers and they hadn’t carried it.
Karan Thapar: Let me put it like this. In an interview you gave to PTI you said that your father was misunderstood and that often he speaks humorously, he speaks sarcastically. The problem is that the very next day, your father said to The Times of India, ‘What did I say that was wrong?’ Again, to people it seemed that while his daughter was trying to explain it and put it in context, the father insists on being defiant and maybe even provocative.
Kanimozhi: No, it wasn’t provocative. People who are against the Sethusamudram project are trying to create a political mileage out of Ram. That is insulting Ram. This is not.
Karan Thapar: Let me put this in a broader context. I accept that your father in an atheist and that the Dravidian movement looks upon Ram in a very different way to people in North India. That apart, is it right for your father to speak in terms that sound contemptuous of people’s religious beliefs?
Kanimozhi: He has never been that. When DMK came to power in 1967, since 25 years the Tiruvarur Temple festival had not happened. The DMK government made it happen; over 1000 temples have been renovated since 2006.
Karan Thapar: So you are saying balance all of that against the comments.
Kanimozhi: We had the Ganesha procession in Chennai and all the protection was given to it. We did not do anything to anybody’s religious beliefs.
Karan Thapar: The BJP says that the CM would not have spoken in these terms about Jesus or Prophet Mohammed.
Kanimozhi: The Adam’s bridge is believed to be the bridge on which Adam walked, so it also means that the bridge has some religious meaning to others too. In case, those two religions try to stop the project in the name of religion, then the CM will be forced to say something against that too.
Karan Thapar: So he was only speaking against Ram because Hindus were trying to stop the project?
Kanimozhi: It is not the Hindus who are against it. I know a lot of Hindus in Tamil Nadu who are for the project. He was only trying to talk about two people who are against it because they are trying to politicise it.
Karan Thapar: But the way it has been perceived is that in the process he has hurt people who believe in Ram.
Kanimozhi: Why is it being given so much importance now, because from the day the Dravidian movement started, people have been speaking like that. Whatever my father has said, Periyar has said 100 times more.
Karan Thapar: But is it right for a CM to say this? Periyar was never CM.
Kanimozhi: Anna was CM, Anna has said so much, MGR came from the Dravidian movement and he believed in Periyar.
Karan Thapar: So you are saying that there's a tradition in Tamil Nadu where CMs speak like this about God and people's faith?
Kanimozhi: Yes, whatever tries to come between development and people, definitely you will have to question it. He has not tried to hurt anybody's feelings, his main purpose of the whole question is only to make sure that the project goes through. The Dravidian movement did not want to demolish Hinduism; it was only questioning the values which were trying to suppress people, the caste system, for example.
Karan Thapar: Now that your father knows that his comments have been misunderstood by millions who worship Ram, does he regret that he caused them hurt and pain?
Kanimozhi: I don’t understand why it is like this. He has been speaking like this and why has it suddenly been made political?
Karan Thapar: Maybe because people have heard it for the first time and realised it. But why is not the important point. It has caused people hurt and pain. He is CM. Does he regret causing them hurt and pain?
Kanimozhi: I’m sure he has explained himself. He says he was quoting Valmiki and it’s not what he is saying.
Karan Thapar: But even so, is it an appropriate quote for the CM to make?
Kanimozhi: It is not one Ramayana. We have hundreds of different versions of Ramayana.
Karan Thapar: So, there is no real regret.
Kanimozhi: There is no one truth about Ramayana.
Karan Thapar: But is this an area for a CM to go into? Should this not be left to philosophers and religious guides. Should CMs in secular states tread on people’s beliefs in this way?
Kanimozhi: Fortunately or unfortunately we have a CM who is very well read.
Karan Thapar: And he takes advantage of that.
Kanimozhi: It’s not taking advantage. You have to explain certain things to people the way they understand it and certain things have to be questioned.
Karan Thapar: What about people outside Tamil Nadu? Millions of those who worship Lord Ram have misunderstood. To them, should he not express a word of regret?
Kanimozhi: He has not tried to hurt anybody’s feelings. His main purpose of the questioning is to make sure the project goes through. We care about our people. There are six districts which are going to benefit out of this. We want our people and future generations to have a better life.
Karan Thapar: So in the interest of the project it does not matter if a few egg shells are broken on the way.
Kanimozhi: Actually, the point is who’s breaking the eggshells?
Karan Thapar: If it were your father the finger points at?
Kanimozhi: The feelings of Tamil people and the people involved in this project have been hurt because they are trying to politicise it.
Karan Thapar: Is it tit for tat?
Kanimozhi: It is not. We are just protesting against it. Today, people who are protesting against this project have all stood by it and have all given permission to make it happen.
Karan Thapar: I understand that you may have a strong defence. Others may disagree with it. At least you have a chance to explain it the way you and your father see it. There is another area where people believe you father may have made an error of judgment: his response to the Supreme Court declaring his proposed bandh illegal. He said he would hold a hunger strike instead. Many people believe that actually what he did in the disguise of a hunger strike is defy the court and go ahead with the bandh.
Kanimozhi: We have to understand two things here. The SC order was a little too late for schools and colleges to say they are working.
Karan Thapar: When you say it was too late for schools and colleges, why were they going to be shut down anyway? Is it right that children should children suffer in their studies?
Kanimozhi: Nobody imposed it. The schools and colleges decided.
Karan Thapar: Voluntarily?
Kanimozhi: Yes. The workers’ unions decided not to work.
Karan Thapar: What about the shops?
Kanimozhi: Nobody asked them to shut down. I know I have friends who had their shops open and others who were shut.
Karan Thapar: Transport? The buses?
Kanimozhi: If no one comes to run the buses what can the government do?
Karan Thapar: Isn’t the reason why they didn’t come, because the government sent out instructions that if they knew if they worked they would be punished. Therefore, under fear or threat or under instructions, there was a bandh.
Kanimozhi: There were at least a thousand buses that were plying and the government did not take action or the people who drove those buses are not suffering because of that.
Karan Thapar: If it was not a bandh and only a hunger strike then how do you explain the fact that after SC expressed its displeasure, your father and his ministers ran back to the offices, buses started to ply and miraculously, the shops opened up. How did that happen?
Kanimozhi: My father never runs back from office from anything. Even on Sunday, he works. On the request of people and political leaders he decided not to come for the hunger strike.
Karan Thapar: The second SC expressed its displeasure he went back to the Secretariat.
Kanimozhi: No, no. Even in the morning when he came to start the fast, he came and said he’s there to start it.
Karan Thapar: So again the press has again misrepresented.
Kanimozhi: Completely. The previous day, there was a meeting and every leader who spoke requested him not to come. And after that he said he will think about it and then decide that maybe he will not.
Karan Thapar: Let me put it like this: many people, even outside Tamil Nadu, and in the country as a whole are convinced that he was trying to outsmart the Court by defying it, and thought he could get away. But he got caught by SC and embarrassed.
Kanimozhi: He is not embarrassed. We are very proud about it and it is the state as a whole that reacted to it. It was an all-party hunger strike.
Karan Thapar: Both on the comments he made about Ram and the manner in which he handled the SC order maybe in Tamil Nadu he has been understood but the rest of the country has begun to look upon him as a CM who is perhaps indiscreet in his language, who perhaps hurts people’s beliefs without realising it, and who then defies SC when he shouldn’t.
Kanimozhi: Why did the SC react like that? Is it right for a judge to be talking like that?
Karan Thapar: Wasn’t the judge provoked by the bandh and what was perceived as defiance?
Kanimozhi: Definitely, but he didn’t even bother to find out the other side of the story.
Karan Thapar: So the fault lies with the SC?
Kanimozhi: I don’t think the judge should have spoken like that. It was quoted in the papers. Why aren’t people questioning that?
Karan Thapar: Let’s talk about the rift between the Karunanidhi family and Marans. What is the relationship between your father and his great-nephew, Dayanidhi Maran.
Kanimozhi: We are still related.
Karan Thapar: That’s all?
Kanimozhi: Yes. I suppose so.
Karan Thapar: Is the emotional bond broken?
Kanimozhi: I think time has to say that.
Karan Thapar: People remember photographs of when your father came to Delhi and Dayanidhi was his minister there, and Dayanidhi was always a bit like his walking stick. They were very close. But that’s over?
Kanimozhi: Maybe, in a way.
Karan Thapar: So the split is irreconcilable?
Kanimozhi: As I said, time has to decide that.
Karan Thapar: And it will take a lot of time?
Kanimozhi: I really don’t know. It might.
Karan Thapar: Is it politics that divided the family or is it family rivalry that has come in the way of politics?
Kanimozhi: Definitely not family rivalry. We have been a close-knit family.
Karan Thapar: So it is politics?
Kanimozhi: Definitely. When you go against the party, the party has always decided this way. All of us have to respect that.
Karan Thapar: Has this hurt your father?
Kanimozhi: I’m sure it has.
Karan Thapar: So somewhere inside him, his heart is still upset.
Kanimozhi: Maybe, in a way, but he’s seen enough in life and so many people have hurt him, people close to him. But that’s life and he can go on with it and he will.
Karan Thapar: What about you? Your political career began almost when your cousin’s ended. You are cousins.
Kanimozhi: Yes. It would have been nice if he was around but …
Karan Thapar: This is life.
Kanimozhi: Yes.
Karan Thapar: You have accepted it and moved on.
Kanimozhi: I have to.
Karan Thapar: The other big divide in Tamil Nadu is between the DMK and the AIADMK, and the ferocious acrimony between your father and Jayalalithaa - do you think this has gone on for too long?
Kanimozhi: Definitely. It’s unnecessary.
Karan Thapar: Today, things have gone to a point where the CM and the leader of the Opposition probably don't even greet each other.
Kanimozhi: Yes.
Karan Thapar: That’s a pretty sad situation.
Kanimozhi: It is very sad and its a very unhealthy situation.
Karan Thapar: Does your father see it the same way?
Kanimozhi: Definitely, he regrets it. It's the first time it's happening to him. He has been in politics with Rajaji, Kamaraj, Mr MGR and it has never been the way it is now.
Karan Thapar: How did it get to this position with Jayalalithaa? Was it just a clash of personality, the intense rivalry? What brought them to a point when they don’t even talk to each other?
Kanimozhi: I really don’t know, but I suppose the DMK and it's leader have been able to have a relationship that’s beyond politics with most of the other leaders, and it's the first time it's happening to him, so I don't think I can blame him for it.
Karan Thapar: The fault lies with Jayalalithaa?
Kanimozhi: I am not going to say anything about that, but whatever you want to read, you can read into that.
Kanimozhi: I said I can't blame him, but I am not blaming anybody else.
Karan Thapar: But you are suggesting that she is a difficult person.
Kanimozhi: That’s what you infer.
Karan Thapar: You are not denying it. Your eyes are saying yes even if as a diplomat you can't bring your mouth to say yes.
Kanimozhi: I am not going to say anything about that but whatever you want to read, you can read into that.
Karan Thapar: You say your father regrets it…
Kanimozhi: Regrets the situation.
Karan Thapar: Absolutely. Since he is the CM, is he prepared to take the first step to try and remedy things?
Kanimozhi: He has always spoken to her with respect. He has tried to reach out. He has not gone out of his way to snub her. Even now in the Assembly, he tries to be cordial and nice to the opposition leaders. When Ms Jayalalithaa is not there, which most of the times she isn’t, he has a pleasant rapport with them.
Karan Thapar: So, it’s only when she walks in that a cold barrier falls between them.
Kanimozhi: Not between them. I things between the two sides of the Assembly.
Karan Thapar: So you are suggesting that if things are going to change, she has to take the first step. Your father has done enough. She has to respond.
Kanimozhi: If it happens. I don’t see it happening that easily.
Karan Thapar: Ms Kanimozhi, it was a pleasure talking to you on Devil’s Advocate.
Kanimozhi: Thanks a lot.
| Ads by Google |
| Related Ads: | |
Read Comment | Post Comment
her father is a cm for tamilnadu next he is a rationaliest so he should speek carefull
Read Comment
She sounds really stubborn. She wont confess to reality in any case even if you have proof for those facts
Read Comment
Read more comment »