I am no hero: Naseeruddin Shah

Mumbai: As Naseeruddin Shah gets set to release his directorial debut Yun Hota Toh Kya Hota, the actor-director says he is ready to face his critics. Here are excerpts of an exclusive interview with CNN-IBN's Entertainment Editor, Rajeev Masand.

He is undeniably one of the country’s finest living actors. However, he is switching gears now. He is the man who makes movies look like so much fun - Naseeruddin Shah.

Naseeruddin Shah: Thank you, thank you Rajeev.

Rajeev Masand: Naseer Bhai, at a time when the average age of a debutant director in the industry is coming down to 20s somewhere, you are making your debut in your 50s.

Naseeruddin Shah: I was too nervous to attempt direction earlier. I am not quite as confident as I sometimes appear, I had great doubts as to whether I was upto the task of directing a movie. I had no illusions about the fact that it is one hell of a difficult job. And I really wanted to be certain that I know what I am doing. Hopefully after you see the movie, you won’t say Naseeruddin doesn’t know what he is doing.

Rajeev Masand: Now Yun Hota To Kya Hota, the film you just directed, correct me if I am wrong, is a film about four couples, about their lives. It's a piece about people and their relationships, about how their lives are intertwined and Mumbai and New York are the backdrop. Did you ever feel a sort of pressure on you to make a serious film, just because you yourself perceived as this man with gravitas.

Naseeruddin Shah: No never. I was determined not to make such a film in fact, because that’s the kind of film everybody expects me to do. And everybody is expressing great surprise that Shabana Azmi is not in the film and that I myself am not in the film! And I say no. It is not a Shabana Azmi-Nasiruddin Shah kind of film at all. It is a kind of film that I would like to see. It has four disparate love stories. All four end tragically and they are love stories of four different age groups of people. There is a young teenage couple, there are newlyweds, there is a middling 35ish guy who is in love with an old woman and there is a middle aged couple. Middle-age romances always fascinated me. In fact I had liked to make romance about an aged couple someday. May be that’s my idea for my next film.

Rajeev Masand: You have always been very vocal about the movies that are being made and about the state of Indian cinema. Are you sort of concerned that now it’s their turn to go?

Naseeruddin Shah: If I deserved to get flaked, I will take it. I know that. I know that what I have made is not rubbish, it’s not mindless and nor it is boring. I know that for sure. If people react and tell me these things, I will be very very surprised and it will make me re-examine everything that I have believed in about what a film should be like. I am prepared for criticism of any kind and I know a lot of it is going to fly fast and furious because people are unsheathing their claws. It’s ok, I can take it. I would in fact be very interested and am very keen to know what people think of my movie. I am getting to a stage where I am getting very impatient for people to see it.

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Rajeev Masand: Was the direction difficult? Did it prove to be a sort of tough job, going into it?

Naseeruddin Shah: No it wasn't tough, but was hard work no doubt.

Rajeev Masand: But acting is hard work as well.

Naseeruddin Shah: Acting is hard work as well, but direction is much more than that. And I would say that camera work is much more difficult than even directing. What was difficult was making the right decision, bang on, right there. I don’t know how the great masters do it, because when you see their movies, you say ‘Oh my God, how simple and how absurd, I mean why I couldn’t think of that?' That’s what you always feel when you see a great moment in a film.

Rajeev Masand: Do you think it comes with practise?

Naseeruddin Shah: Yes. I guess it comes with practice. Some have to be geniuses. I am certainly not one of them because in the filmmaking department, I know I have fallen short in a few places. While watching the movie, I felt ‘hell I should have thought of that’. Now that extra labour which I neglected to do is I guess the really really hard part where you must just focus completely to the point of obsession.

Rajeev Masand: Sir, tell us a little about the film that all of us are really looking forward to see. It’s a film in which you have a small role. It is an ensemble film again - Vishal Bharadwaj’sOmkara. This is ofcourse his follow up to his Maqboolin which also you had an interesting role. What is it like doing Shakespeare on screen as against doing it on stage, which you have done several times over?

Naseeruddin Shah: If you examine the similarities between Shakespeare and commercial Hindi cinema, you will be astonished by how many there are. Every single cliché of Hindi cinema is borrowed from William Shakespeare. It’s another matter that most people can’t read through any of Shakespeare plays, but the mistaken identities, rich boy-poor girl, man dressing as a woman, woman dressing as a man, warring families, misunderstood parents...

Rajeev Masand: Star crossed lovers.

Naseeruddin Shah: Star crossed lovers, yes. Name it and that cliché is there in William Shakespeare. Hindi cinema has borrowed heavily from William Shakespeare. It’s quite amazing that no Hindi filmmaker except Vishal has thought of adapting an entire Shakespeare play in an Indian commercial Hindi film setting. It lends itself beautifully. There is perhaps one instance, where a film called Hamlet was made by a gentleman called Kishore Sahu who has now passed away. He played Hamlet. Mala Sinha played Ophelia, her first movie.

And it was done with all the rapiers and tights and everything. I have seen that film. It’s quite an absurd film, but atleast he attempted it. So I was thrilled when he thought of setting Maqbool in the Mumbai underworld. I thought it fit beautifully.

And then Othello, in the heartland of UP, political mafia, and it is a brilliant script. I think it surpasses Maqbool as a script. The casting is spot on. I think Ajay has grown tremendously as an actor. I think the same about Saif. Vivek Oberoi is also good when he gets the right chance.

Then ofcourse there is Kareena who is wonderful and Konkona who is absolutely marvelous. And I am in the film only because Vishal said 'Naseer Bhai I don’t have any role for you'. So I said 'Okay, there is something, there is some Duke or something?' So he said 'Yes. There is. So will you play the Duke?' I said, I will.

So I went off to for a couple days and hung around with Vishal and his team and shot that part for two days. It’s again a blink-and-you-miss-him kind of a role, but I was happy to do it. Because I could lend whatever support I can to a film like this which I believe is going to be a really good film.

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Rajeev Masand: Has the fun in making movies gone?

Naseeruddin Shah: Yes. When it goes, you can see it on screen. At the same time, there have been many movies which were great fun to make, but which turned out dreadful movies. I’m talking of the 70s when one was into that kind art cinema very deeply. Some of them, I treasure the memory of having made those movies, but they were unwatchable. So it’s a kind of paradox. You have to have fun while working, but then fun mustn’t be mistaken to be only what happens off camera.

Rajeev Masand: Sure. That has to translate.

Naseeruddin Shah: Absolutely. And the fun must be in the creativity.

Rajeev Masand: So then can I assume that making Iqbalwas good fun because it was fantastic film?

Naseeruddin Shah: It was great fun. I had reservations to it, I must admit, while making the film. I still have them. Somehow Nagesh and I have never got around to talking about them. It’s a wonderful film, it’s a fun film and it’s of course great that it was a great success. But I think it falls short on a few scores. It’s not the right time to talk about it because my film is just getting released. So when Nagesh sees my film, then he and I will talk about Iqbal and Yun Hota Toh Kya Hota privately.

Rajeev Masand: Now you have done some work outside of this country. One of the things a lot of people got to see because it was a big studio picture was The League of Extraordinary Gentleman, which you did with Sean Connery.

Naseeruddin Shah: It was bore.

Rajeev Masand: Was it a bore to make?

Naseeruddin Shah: It was a bore to make and it was bore to watch. I was committed for four months to the film. It went on for six and a half months in Prague, and we went into winter where the sunsets at three o’clock and it turns dark at four. And there is no light till 11 am. I mean you get four hours of sunlight.

I didn’t see daylight for days because often we were shooting nights. The temperatures dropped to minus 15 and minus 17 at night and the film was a bore.

I took it on because a) I wanted to meet Mr Connery, b) Because there was a ton of money offered to me and c) Because I was very curious about these huge budgeted Hollywood films.

Rajeev Masand: Action films.

Naseeruddin Shah: Actions films. Computer graphics. I wanted know about them. The role didn’t excite me much, but it was one of the leading parts so I took it and I can’t say I regretted it. I gained something out of it, though it was a long haul away from home and away from family.

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Rajeev Masand: So what was Mr Connery like?

Naseeruddin Shah: He is wonderful guy. He is a very normal person. I think he works very hard at being normal because you should never forget who he is.

Rajeev Masand: Bond of course.

Naseeruddin Shah: Mr Bond. Absolutely. I mean I was a school kid when I saw him play Bond in Dr No. So it was privilege to be around him and chat with him about football and golf and this and that. About his past and his beginning. He is very interesting guy. He is a nice guy.

Rajeev Masand: Sir you have done lots of films. Tell me in films like Main Hun Na and Krrish a lot of fans perhaps might feel why Naseeruddin Shah is doing this.

Naseeruddin Shah: Because I am too old to play a hero any longer and I was not good at it in the first place.

Rajeev Masand: Not entirely.

Naseeruddin Shah: Well thank you. But I don’t agree. When I used to watch myself playing a hero in commercial Hindi movies, I would feel that I don’t fit in. I would think, 'what’s that guy doing up there? He shouldn’t be in this movie'.

Rajeev Masand: That’s also because we have a stereotype for a Bollywood hero.

Naseeruddin Shah: Perhaps. But, it’s also the fact that in a Bollywood movie there are certain givens. And all those givens are of a synthetic nature. You suspend your disbelief. You don’t expect realism. And you don’t look for it.

What you expect is a nice, feel good, pretty looking people. Nice clothes. Nice setting. Nice world. Utopia. I, out of habit would try to bring in what I thought was believability into my behaviour even in these movies which was big mistake.

What I needed to do was to play larger then life and I had not schooled myself to do that. I had infact to do the opposite when I began to work, because I played characters like the ones in Manthan and Nishaant and so on which were real life ordinary people of the earth. I had to divest my personality of all the bravado and the kind of confidence that I had when I was 20 years old. I could may be have done those parts better when I was 20 years old. I had to bury these qualities inorder to play believable people.

Rajeev Masand: Do you look back on some work perhaps on cable or DVD and cringe?

Naseeruddin Shah: Oh boy! Lots of it. Movies I had forgotten about, which I hoped were buried forever.

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Rajeev Masand: And they have this way of making their way on Television.

Naseeruddin Shah: Yes. Just at that moment. But, it’s there and I cannot deny it. It’s work I did and in which I failed.

Rajeev Masand: But you’ve not been all bad. Let’s be all fair. You did Tridev, and you did Oye Oye and that went on to become a cult of its time. How do you look back at that?

Naseeruddin Shah: Sure. Well yes with great affection. With great memories. I am very grateful to a film like Tridev. I had fun making it. It succeeded. Everything worked. So I remember it with great tenderness. Even some, which didn’t do well. But, no regrets whatsoever.

Rajeev Masand: So what are the films then that really make you proud? Are those the ones that are the really good work within the commercial format, Masoom perhaps?

Naseeruddin Shah: Sure. Within the commercial format, a movie like Mohraa, Chamatkaar.

Rajeev Masand: First super hero.

Naseeruddin Shah: Yes. First super hero who could fly. Though before that there was a movie called Superman with Nirupa Roy. Would you believe it?

Rajeev Masand: I have heard of it.

Naseeruddin Shah: A film called Superman with Nirupa Roy playing Superman.

Rajeev Masand: Playing Superman?

Naseeruddin Shah: Yes. Playing Superman. Not Superwoman.

Rajeev Masand: This I have to see.

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Naseeruddin Shah: Anyway. So Chamatkaar tattily made though it was. You can see the border and the special effects. But I loved doing that film and I love seeing it. My kids enjoy it. So they were the ones where the energies happened to be moving in the same direction.

Those are the movies which, I remember like Jaane Bhi Do Yaaro, which was hell to make. It was not fun to make. It was sheer hell to make that movie. Yet I remember with a lot of affection. We sit and laugh about it all the time. Not the movie itself, but the things that happened on the making. And it’s worked luckily because all the energies were moving in the same direction.

Rajeev Masand: Ofcourse I can’t finish this interview before I ask you about this impression of you as this hot headed, angry man. Is that something that your actors, your team perhaps were ever concerned with while making this movie?

Naseeruddin Shah: Perhaps they were. But I surprised them all by not yelling at anyone.

Rajeev Masand: That’s true actually because we have spoken to a lot of your actors and you know all of them said you know we were expecting him to yell.

Naseeruddin Shah: It’s a myth. No I was angry with a lot of things in life I guess and I sublimated it via my work because the roles I was given always required me to be angry so I could bring a lot of authentic anger to it. However, it did become an addiction. And this is something a friend pointed out to me. “That you are addicted to anger” and what that person said made a great deal of sense to me. Because there is always a moment when you feel the temperature rising in your head and there is always a moment where you decide should I get angry or should I not and you decide to go for it, and then you are in the grip of that emotion.

You should decide not to go for it. This is the lesson I have learnt. And I think I get things done better because of that. Getting angry is always very harmful and damaging and I used it when it was needed I guess. It wasn’t a big act. But what worries me is that co-actors tend to get apprehensive and defensive, sometimes combative because of nothing I have done.

Rajeev Masand: Right. So this was a happy film to make?

Naseeruddin Shah: It was happy film to make and I’m sure my entire unit will agree.

Rajeev Masand: Looking very forward to seeing the film ofcourse and hoping that you make a very smooth transition from actor to director. Hopefully we will see a lot more from you in time to come. Thank you so much for talking to us.

Naseeruddin Shah: Thank you Rajeev. Thanks very much.