Click to play videoJammu and Kashmir Chief Minister Omar Abdullah will emerge a “better man” from the crisis in his state, says his father and Union Minister Farooq Abdullah. But the Chief Minister must “come to grips” with the administration and “show the door” to officials who don't perform, says Farooq. The former chief minister told Karan Thapar on Devil's Advocate that his son was not inexperienced and would emerge from the crisis in his state a “better man”.
Karan Thapar: Is Kashmir over the worst or could the situation erupt again? That is the key thought I shall discuss today with the former chief minister, National Conference president and senior Cabinet minister in Delhi, Farooq Abdullah.
Dr Abdullah, is the worst of the crisis over or do you think the present tense calm could be deceptive?
Farooq Abdullah: Well, let us say the process has started towards normalisation. I won't say we are over the hump as yet, but we are gradually getting to a position whereby we will see peace. But let us not be sure that peace is going for long because we need to understand fundamentally why these things erupt.
Karan Thapar: I want very much come to that understanding but first let me ask you a couple of questions. Are you beginning to be confident that the anger and defiance you saw on the streets of Kashmir is abating even if it hasn't completely disappeared?
Farooq Abdullah: I would say it has mellowed down; it has simmered down. We hope that the future steps we will take, as rapidly as possible, will bring confidence in the younger generation that there is something thought about their future.
Karan Thapar: How critical was then for the government to have taken tough steps such as calling the Army out and denying journalists curfew passes for four days so that newspapers didn't come out?
Farooq Abdullah: I think if you look at it--number of steps if we had taken 18 months ago since we got power probably this stage wouldn't have emerged. There are lot of reasons--let us be very clear, it is not because of things in our state, it is not because of the failure of the government--as people try to project that it's the failure of Omar (Omar Abdullah, Jammu and Kashmir Chief Minister) and the Congress and the National Conference. It is not so.
We are in a problematic position with our neigbour. That continues to play at times. Now, since the Minister for Home Affairs had to go (to Pakistan) something had to give here, so some of them instigated some things. It was easy because the floor was ready for it. Today, our Minister for External Affairs is there, so there has to be something--so they can say speak, look at this position (situation). So all these things--it is a very complicated affair as far my state is concerned.
Karan Thapar: But you are also saying to me, aren't you, that even though you have had two-three days of calm the possibility of the situation erupting still remains? You can't rule it out.
Farooq Abdullah: I don't rule anything out but if proper steps are taken there is every chance that it will not blow in a manner it did.
Karan Thapar: Let us then come to the proper steps that need to be taken. Let me begin by saying that this is third summer in succession that protests have erupted in cities like Srinagar, Baramullah, Sopore and Anantnag. Why is this happening? What is the cause of this anger?
Farooq Abdullah: You see there are a number of factors. If just elections took place in 2002, in 2006 and 2008 and we have an euphoria 'oh look, elections have taken place and everything is hunky-dory' it is not so. The problem is still there.
We have to still continuously talk, not only to the country which is involved in it on the other side, but also to the people in our state who may not agree with the present dispensation or other things. Be they Hurriyat, be they others (but) we have to somehow roll them in the betterment of the people of the state.
Karan Thapar: So you are saying to me that the euphoria over the success of elections mislead people into thinking there was no problem?
Farooq Abdullah: I think we went into a trance that 'oh, now things are all right, probably a developmental phase will bring it out'. Otherwise, as far as the government of India is concerned the amount of help they have given to the state I have never seen it before.
Karan Thapar: But yet there was this trance?
Farooq Abdullah: Yes! Now why? First and foremost thing we have nearly in Jammu, Kashmir and Ladakh--all three regions--over 6 lakh educated, unemployed youth who don't see any future ahead. We don't have industries, so where are the jobs?
Karan Thapar: So this is the anger and frustration--
Farooq Abdullah: Frustration! They feel that every thing is blocked for them. Unless we have an opening for them, that look there is a future for you--they came out to vote with the hope that there will be future for them and there was none.
Karan Thapar: So they felt cheated?
Farooq Abdullah: They felt cheated, exactly.
Karan Thapar: In fact they felt mislead?
Farooq Abdullah: Not only mislead, they felt every thing. They felt all these thing politicians promised where is it?
Karan Thapar: They feel let down by politicians?
Farooq Abdullah: Exactly! The point here is they do feel let down. The point here is we must undo this feeling.
Karan Thapar: Can I ask you a blunt question? Have politicians, all politicians of all parties and all stripes, wittingly or unwittingly, let down the people of Kashmir?
Farooq Abdullah: I think they feel--it may not be done with a purpose but when they didn't achieve the things for which they stood and voted that their children will get jobs, it will be better understanding with all, there will be general peace within Jammu, within Ladakh, within Kashmir they definitely felt--it is not only building roads, giving agricultural land, water and all the other facilities we have created for them. There has never been like this (facilities) before.
Karan Thapar: But they want recognition for their identity, they want recognition of their worth, and they are not getting that?
Farooq Abdullah: And the biggest this is they want to be party to the development of the state as part of the working force.
Karan Thapar: So this is a generation that feels rejected, this is a generation that feels unwanted and alienated.
Farooq Abdullah: I think they feel--part of them--that they are alienated. Part of them are being used, let us be very clear about it. There are certain people who are financing them--
Karan Thapar: Are you talking about the separatists? Geelani?
Farooq Abdullah: I don't know who. I won't point fingers because this knowledge will only be known to the people who are in the government.
Karan Thapar: Is the LeT also stirring the cauldron?
Farooq Abdullah: I don't know. There are all sorts of forces that are working at this time, so to which force is involved and who is involved--but there is bound to be. We have heard that there are people who are now being paid money to throw stones.
Karan Thapar: But the truth of the matter is the cauldron was anyway boiling. Whether individuals come and stir it is another matter, it is the boiling cauldron that you have to turn the temperature down
Farooq Abdullah: Today the foremost thing is the administration to be tightened. You can't have administration who have free accommodation, who have got free security, who have got free everything (but) they will not come to the Secretariat. How do you work?
Karan Thapar: Why is the administration loose?
Farooq Abdullah: Well, that is what the government must see and they must immediately get grips to with this.
Karan Thapar: But this is your government, your party's government. Your son is the Chief Minister.
Farooq Abdullah: One good thing I must say. I do not accept this fact that I should be another power centre--I am not a power centre. There is only one power--the power is the Chief Minister. He decides, we can tell him (but) it is for the Chief Minister to take action, to look into this. And I am sure this thing that has happened must have shown to the Chief Minister and to the other people who are there on the scene where their friends lie and where their foes lie. Their own weaknesses they must know where they are.
Karan Thapar: Has the Chief Minister's inexperience been a problem?
Farooq Abdullah: No, I don't think so. How can you say when he was here in Delhi as External Affairs Minister, when he was here as Commerce Minister. He didn't know anything but yet he delivered so well.
Karan Thapar: The Army chief has gone on record to say that at critical moments the state government lost confidence and secondly that it hasn't built on the gains of the 2008 elections? Is the Army chief wrong?
Farooq Abdullah: I think the Army Chief should never make statements. Army Chief is there to keep silent and his job is to see that the Army is alert and ready, he has not to make political statements and I am totally against Any army chief or police chief making political statements. Political statements should come from politicians, who can answer in the assembly and who can answer in Parliament.
Karan Thapar: You said that the administration isn't pulling its weight, they don't necessarily come to the Secretariat. Are they defying the Chief Minister. Are they not cooperating?
Farooq Abdullah: I don't know, that is for the Chief Minister to know. But if I was the man I will not tolerate that when you have every perk under the earth to come then you don't get to the thing--you see as far as I was concerned my Chief Secretary is the Chief Minister of the bureaucracy; my police chief was the chief minister of the security force. I would not interfere.
Karan Thapar: Does Omar Abdullah need to follow that pattern and style?
Farooq Abdullah: I think he should. He should follow the path that is there very clearly. He must give responsibility and those who don't fulfill responsibilities, the door must be shown immediately.
Karan Thapar: Is he too tolerant?
Farooq Abdullah: I don't know. That you have to ask him.
Karan Thapar: Is he too forgiving of people who don't perform?
Farooq Abdullah: That you have to ask him. I cannot say what he is.
Karan Thapar: But you are saying he needs to be tougher.
Farooq Abdullah: Well, I think with this experience that he has gone through I am sure he must have realised as what is to be done for the future. But don't blame him only, there are so many forces--outside and inside--that are working. But one of the biggest factors that has gone in his favour is that the government in Delhi has stood firmly behind him. I have never seen the government of India stand so firmly when I was the Chief Minister.
Karan Thapar: But has the Congress party, his ally in Srinagar, stood behind him firmly. After all Saifuddin Soz publicly descended on him for calling out the Army and deputy CM Tara Chand seems to have boycotted the all-party meeting? Is the Congress in Srinagar behaving differently than the Congress in Delhi?
Farooq Abdullah: Being the National Conference president I cannot comment on the Congress. What I know is that both parties have to stand firm if they want to deliver to people the promises that have been made. There cannot be two opinions, one from one side and one from the other side. That is not on. The Congress president is here very clear--the present Congress president should be very clear. I don't think that I, as National Conference president, see any other way. I think both of us have to cooperate, have to stand behind this government to see that they deliver to the people the promises made.
Karan Thapar: Omar Abdullah has been through a nerve-wracking experience for almost three weeks--
Farooq Abdullah: Well, I am glad he went through because this is what makes a man. If you don't have challenges then you never will know what is there to become. Whether you are solid enough.
Karan Thapar: But has this dented his confidence?
Farooq Abdullah: It has not dented his confidence. It has made him stronger, stronger to understand what reality is and what is being projected.
Karan Thapar: So he is a better man with this experience?
Farooq Abdullah: I am sure today Omar Abdullah is much better in understanding the people that work with him and he knows what their acumen is all about.
Karan Thapar: So you are absolutely confident that he can pull it together even if you go through more eruptions hereafter/
Farooq Abdullah: I am sure this eruption has made him a solid person and I am sure he is going to stand (up) to anything.
Karan Thapar: Are you speaking as a doting father?
Farooq Abdullah: I am speaking as the president of the party.
Karan Thapar: Dr Abdullah, let’s turn to the government of India. You have explained to me that there is a serious problem of alienation, anger and frustration. A whole generation feels they have been forgotten; they have no job. Does Delhi understand the gravity of the situation?
Farooq Abdullah: I think they do understand the gravity of the situation--
Karan Thapar: --are they responding to it?
Farooq Abdullah: I am sure they are going to respond.
Karan Thapar: Going to?
Farooq Abdullah: You see the point here is that now they know that they have to beat this anger. You have to do things which are necessary so that this eruption doesn't repeat itself. And those points have been discussed in the recent all party meeting. They will soon be coming to Delhi to talk to the Prime Minister and I am sure that those inputs to the Prime Minister will be very good and action will be taken on them.
Karan Thapar: I'll tell you why I asked because the government has taken considerable steps to open the process of dialogue with Pakistan, but commensurate steps to open a process of dialogue internally in Kashmir haven't been taken. And Kashmiris often say that New Delhi treats us like step children.
Farooq Abdullah: Let's be clear on one thing. Government of India's doors are open to everyone. The problem is that when they open the door and they started talking, you saw how one Hurriyat leader nearly died. that put frightened to the people that they can be eliminated by whoever agency might be.
And therefore, whatever steps are going to be taken, with a great care and a great understanding, and doors have to be opened; doors have to be continuously worked on. The path has to be found with every political party, whether it opposed or does not oppose.
Karan Thapar: But does understand the urgency of the situation?
Farooq Abdullah: Yes, it does. It does understand the urgency of the situation and I am sure that Delhi is not going to sit back and not do something.
Karan Thapar: But on the streets of Kashmir, the young think they have forgotten about?
Farooq Abdullah: No, they have not (been) forgotten. Let us make sure there are certain things I cannot divulge. But there are some things I can assure through your channel at this time that the government of India is trying to open all channels, all methods of trying to find a better way for the people of that state.
They also, at the same time, do realise that the dialogue with Pakistan will have to continue and arrive at a rightful solution so that the relationship between the two countries does not get derailed.
Karan Thapar: You are saying that this is priority number one for the government--
Farooq Abdullah: --it is number one. Otherwise, our Home Minister and the foreign minister would not be in the other country.
Karan Thapar: Does the government, not so much this time in Delhi but Srinagar, have the capacity to reach out to the alienated young who are throwing stones today.
Farooq Abdullah: I am sure they have the capacity and, by the grace of god, they will be able to reach them. This tragedy has taught them and I am sure this tragedy will bring fruitful results, better results for the people.
Karan Thapar: Omar Abdullah is of an age where he can reach out to the people in twenties. But has he got the capacity to do it?
Farooq Abdullah: Yes, he has and, insha-allah, he will reach to the people.
Karan Thapar: Many people say that in this moment of crisis, there should be a swapping of roles between Omar Abdullah and you. You should be Chief Minister, he should be in Delhi. Is that on the cards?
Farooq Abdullah: It is a wrong notion. The day I handed over this to him I told him the future rests in his hands and he must deliver to the people I have not been able to deliver.
Karan Thapar: That you have not been able to deliver? He is making up for what you couldn't do?
Farooq Abdullah: Yes.
Karan Thapar: You see him capable of fulfilling the lapses you left uncovered.
Farooq Abdullah: Yes, I am sure he will do that. I am sure.
Karan Thapar: So speculation that you are waiting to go back as Chief Minister--
Farooq Abdullah: --is totally wrong, totally baseless, and some of the media people are using this to create uncertainty in the state and in the country. I want to make it very clear through your channel that there is no such thing. He is the leader; the entire country is behind him, entire party of National Conference and Congress is behind him, and even the other national parties, who may not be in the government of India, are behind him to deliver goods for the betterment of the people and the betterment of the country.
Karan Thapar: So, in this moment of crisis, Omar Abdullah is and will remain Chief Minister.
Farooq Abdullah: He will and, insha-allah, he will continue to lead the destinies of the people.
Karan Thapar: If anyone puts pressure on you and say 'Farooq Abdullah go back', you will say no?
Farooq Abdullah: Farooq Abdullah has done his duty. That is over. And I must tell you Karan. You are the first man I have spoken after all these days. And may God help me now when others jump on me, and for this you are responsible.
Karan Thapar: Dr Abdullah, thank you for that first interview.
Farooq Abdullah: Thank you.
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