Click to play videoIt is now Vice President and Presidential candidate Bhairon Singh Shekhawat’s turn to face accusations and allegations. How does the BJP defend Shekhawat, whom it is supporting in the Presidential election? That is one of the key questions Karan Thapar asked BJP President Rajnath Singh.
(The following is a translation of an interview in Hindi)
Karan Thapar: The Outlook magazine claims that on 21 August 1947, when Bhairon Singh Shekhawat was a police sub-inspector in Sikar, he was suspended for taking a bribe from salt traders by Kalyan Singh, the Rao Raja of Sikar. Should such a man be supported by you for President of India?
Rajnath Singh: As far as I know Mr Shekhawat was never suspended during his service period.
Karan Thapar: Have you asked him that question?
Rajnath Singh No, I have never asked him such a question.
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Karan Thapar: Then how do you know that this is a fact?
Rajnath Singh: Because I have seen his character and role during that period. And that role was splendid and extraordinary.
Karan Thapar: Outlook has evidence given to them by Braj Mohan Mathur, who says that in company of his brother, Radha Mohan Mathur, Bhairon Singh Shekhawat told them this. Number II, they sheltered Bhairon Singh Shekhawat for five months and Number III, they helped reinstate Shekhawat in the police.
Rajnath Singh: I have no information regarding this. I would only say that since the time Bhairon Singh Shekhawat began his public life his reputation has been spotless.
Karan Thapar: If you don’t have information regarding this that means you have not investigated it.
Rajnath Singh: I have learnt of this (the allegations) from you for the first time.
Karan Thapar: But then the allegations could be true?
Rajnath Singh: No, I don’t accept that.
Karan Thapar: How can you say that? You don’t have evidence
Rajnath Singh: I am well aware of his public life, and since 1952 his public life has been spotless.
Karan Thapar: But people’s public life can be misguiding. The allegations may be true, as you have not investigated them.
Rajnath Singh: I cannot comment on the allegations.
Karan Thapar: That is good enough? I can’t say whether it is true or false, so they could be true. Let me come to the second allegation. Sushma Swaraj, Shekhawat’s spokesperson, has admitted that as Rajasthan Chief Minister in 1977 he withdrew cases against himself brought under the Essential Commodities Act.
Is it fitting that a Chief Minister in his own case should act as judge and jury?
Rajnath Singh: If there was a baseless police complaint (FIR) against him—a case which had no chance in the courts—then it can be taken back. There is nothing wrong in that.
Karan Thapar: Even if the case was baseless, is it fitting that a Chief Minister in how own case become judge and jury? Surely, he should have appointed an independent committee.
Rajnath Singh: One has to see the nature of the case. I won’t comment without knowing about the nature of the case.
Karan Thapar: Once again you are not able to defend him fully.
Rajnath Singh: I don’t think Bhairon Singh Shekhawat needs to be defended.
Karan Thapar: How can you be so sure? There are allegations against him and you will have to defend him.
Rajnath Singh: Since 1952 people have seen Bhairon Singh Shekhawat as MLA, Minister Chief Minister. He has been an impartial Vice President for five years.
Karan Thapar: Let me bring up another allegation. It is reported by Outlook magazine that as Rajasthan Chief Minister he used the powers of his office to defend his son-in-law, Narpat Singh Rajvi, when Rajvi was accused of trying to obtain compensation for land which he didn’t own. Once again he used his powers to defend his son-in-law and it is also alleged that he lied on the floor of the Assembly.
Rajnath Singh: I don’t know about this.
Karan Thapar: If you don’t know then why don’t you investigate. You are supporting him on what basis?
Rajnath Singh: We decided to support him based on the information we have about his public life since 1952.
Karan Thapar: I am pointing out to you that he is accused of taking a bribe as a sub-inspector in 1947; I am pointing out to you that he has removed cases against him—which is wrong for a Chief Minister to do; I am pointing out to you that he has used his powers of office to defend himself and his family, to benefit them. This is not just misuse of office, it is nepotism.
Rajnath Singh: I believe that most of these allegations are false.
Karan Thapar: How can you say that when you have no information?
Rajnath Singh: From what I know of his public life my belief is strong. That is all I can say.
Karan Thapar: You are telling the audience I have not investigated but simply have faith and believe that these allegations are untrue.
Rajnath Singh: If we have trust and faith in him it is after looking at his political and public life since 1952. I can’t comment on what are you saying is correct or not. These allegations could be false.
Karan Thapar: You are going by his political career, let me bring that to spotlight. And now the allegations touch his integrity…
Rajnath Singh: No one can question Mr Bhairon Singh Shekhawat’s integrity.
Karan Thapar: From 1952 to 1972 he was an MLA in Rajasthan, from 1977 to 2002 he was an MLA again and yet in between for three years he became a Rajya Sabha MP from Madhya Pradesh. Does it not prove that he would have filed a false and fraudulent declaration of residence in Madhya Pradesh?
He would have to—in those days without a declaration of residence he couldn’t have become an MP of the Rajya Sabha.
Rajnath Singh: Whatever I know about Bhairon Singh Shekhawat I believe that his character is spotless.
Karan Thapar: Then please answer this question: from 1952 to 2002, for 50 years he was an MLA in Rajasthan. Are you telling me right through that 50-year period his residence was actually in Madhya Pradesh?
Or you saying that for three years in between he mysteriously changed his residence and then changed it back again. Which are you saying, because only of these two possibilities can be the truth?
Rajnath Singh: Look, I will speak to him about the allegations you have made. I will tell him that Karanji made these allegations. But to tell you the truth I believe these allegations are not true at all.
Karan Thapar: You have started doubting; your faith has weakened; you say you will have to ask him…
Rajnath Singh: No, not all. There is no question of losing faith in Bhairon Singh Shekhawat.
Karan Thapar: Let me put it like this, and I am using blunt and brutal language. I put it to you that to become a Rajya Sabha MP from Madhya Pradesh Bhairon Singh Shekhawat lied about his residence status. He told a lie when he claimed, in a declaration, that he was a resident of Madhya Pradesh.
Rajnath Singh: Since the time I know him I have not heard Bhairon Singh Shekhawat tell a lie.
Karan Thapar: Then on what basis did he become an MP from Madhya Pradesh? Sadly, and almost embarrassingly, the allegations concerning Bhairon Singh Shekhawat’s integrity are not limited to the issue I have brought up.
Periodically, the local papers in Rajasthan have claimed that Bhairon Singh Shekhawat has promoted women of disreputable character, of questionable morality in return for sexual favours. What efforts have you made to investigate these allegations?
Rajnath Singh: I will not answer these questions. I am learning of all these allegations from you for the first time.
Karan Thapar: Outlook magazine has a week ago published that Shalini Sharma was appointed Vice President of the Social Welfare Board of Rajasthan by Shekhawat in return for dubious favours.
Rajnath Singh: It is not necessary that whatever Outlook publishes is correct. I have been reading Rajasthan Patrika, the state’s largest circulated newspaper, for long and I have never read any such allegations in it. And you are only talking about Outlook.
Karan Thapar: You have chosen as your preferred candidate for the Presidency of India a man about whom there are allegations that he has accepted a bribe as a policeman, that he has used his powers of office to defend his family and himself, that there are question marks about his integrity regarding declaration of residence and even question marks on his relationships with women. Should such a man be the President of India?
Rajnath Singh: No, there are no question marks on his integrity. We are supporting an individual who has been the Vice President of this country for five years—someone who has never lowered the dignity of this constitutional post.
Karan Thapar: But it is being said about this individual that he took a bribe, that he lied about his residential status to become a Rajya Sabha MP; there are question marks about his use of office as Chief Minister.
Rajnath Singh: No one can even imagine that Bhairon Singh Shekhawat will ever take a bribe. These are all false allegations.
Karan Thapar: You say these are all false allegations, so let me raise another matter. Bhairon Singh Shekhawat, as Vice President, has appealed to MPs and MLAs to vote in the Presidential election according to their conscience.
Is it fitting that the Vice President of India, the second highest post in the country, should be calling upon MPs and MLAs to disregard their party guidelines and directions? Isn’t it tantamount to encouraging indiscipline?
Rajnath Singh: No. Where in the Constitution does it say that a sitting Vice President, who is contesting the Presidential election, cannot make an appeal to the electoral college. It is not like that; there is no such restriction.
Karan Thapar: But is it proper, is it fitting?
Rajnath Singh: But why can’t he appeal? A sitting Vice President who is contesting for the Presidency can make an appeal to the electoral college.
Karan Thapar: But he is appealing to MPs and MLAs to disregard guidelines and directions given by their parties? Is it fitting for the Vice President to do that? He is encouraging indiscipline.
Rajnath Singh: No, it is not like that. He has never talked about disregarding guidelines.
Karan Thapar: You don’t think this is a question of ethics.
Rajnath Singh: What has he said?
Karan Thapar: Should the Vice President be appealing to MPs and MLAs to vote against party directions? Is it fitting and proper.
Rajnath Singh: Parties don’t issue whip (in Presidential election).
Karan Thapar: That is only a technicality.
Rajnath Singh: Voting in the presidential election is totally secret and MPs and MLAs may vote as they like. Bhairon Singh Shekhawat has not violated any guideline.
Karan Thapar: I have brought to your notice all the allegations—from the serious to the embarrassing, as well as allegations concerning bribes and with integrity. You have either refuted him or you said you don’t know about them. Let us now talk about the allegations your party has levelled against Pratibha Patil.
You have officially released articles by Arun Shourie claiming that Pratibha Patil was the founder-chairperson of the Pratibha Mahila Shahakari Bank (in Jalgaon, Maharashtra) and that she continued as its founder-chairperson till the demise of the bank. That is wrong—the founder-chairperson is in fact Mrs Sonalkar and she held that post for 11 years.
Pratibha Patil was the fourth chairperson and she only held the job for one month and eight days. Your facts are wrong.
Rajnath Singh: Look, the BJP has not made these allegations against Pratibha Patil and neither has the NDA. People in the Congress, because of the internal conflicts, have made…
Karan Thapar: Excuse me, but these allegations are made in a booklet published by the BJP.
Rajnath Singh: Listen to what I have said. I said these allegations were not made by the BJP or NDA but came out because of the internal conflicts in the Congress.
Karan Thapar: Arun Shourie was questioned about these allegations and he said that it is on her bio-data in the Lok Sabha that she was a member of that body and it was in on her bio-data as the Governor of Rajasthan.
I have checked both bio-datas, neither claims that she was ever founder-chairperson of the bank. Once again, Arun Shourie is wrong.
Rajnath Singh: We only want a clarification from Pratibha Patil and that she categorically reply to the allegations made against her. There should be a logical reply, that is all the BJP and NDA want from her.
Karan Thapar: I will give you a clarification…
Rajnath Singh: I don’t want a clarification from you—the allegations are against Pratibha Patil and it would be better that the clarifications come from her.
Karan Thapar: Your book is not just fraudulent, it is deliberately wrong. In it you have said that three women, who you allege are sisters-in-law and nieces of Pratibha Patil, were given interest waivers amounting to almost Rs 33 lakh.
That is not true. First, all the women are not connected to Pratibha Patil. Secondly, they were not given interest waivers. Thirdly, they repaid the interest in full at 13.5 percent, which is the RBI guideline for that category of loan. Finally, they repaid the principal as well. All your facts (in the book) are wrong.
Rajnath Singh: It would have been better if these clarifications that you are giving were given by Pratibha Patil or the Congress people.
Karan Thapar: But what right do you have to tarnish her reputation?
Rajnath Singh: The BJP and NDA are saying that whatever allegations are coming out, Pratibha Patil or the Congress people must reply to them. Let them give a logical reply, why are they are not doing that?
Karan Thapar: Let me give you another example…
Rajnath Singh: You are not the spokesperson for Pratibha Patil or the Congress.
Karan Thapar: But I am a journalist who is telling you the facts.
Rajnath Singh: You are telling these things to me—tell it to the entire nation too—but why are Congress people not speaking. Why is Karan Thapar making the clarifications? Why is not Pratibha Patil speaking?
Karan Thapar: Another deliberate falsehood (in the book)—this time very cunningly and very cleverly put across. You say in your book that loans totalling Rs 2.25 crore were distributed to Pratibha Patil’s family members and they were then defaulted upon. Then you cite the names of the family members, and you suggest that these names have been released by the RBI.
The truth is that the names have not been released by the RBI—the names have come from employees of the bank employees union, which is affiliated to the BJP and it’s authenticity and credibility is highly questionable.
Rajnath Singh: Even if these allegations were made by the employees of a union, a candidate for the highest constitutional post must herself reply to them or do so through a spokesperson.
Karan Thapar is neither the spokesperson for Pratibha Patil, nor for the Congress or UPA.
Karan Thapar: What you call allegations are in fact your own clever concoction of lies, half-truths and deliberate misinterpretations. Worst of all you have deliberately and manipulatively confused between RBI documents and employee union complaints. You are misleading people.
Rajnath Singh: This Arun Shourie’s article—you interviewed him a few days ago, why didn’t you ask him these questions then?
Karan Thapar: Because at that time I didn’t know the truth. I know now. Today I am asking that this booklet, which has been published in the BJP’s name and has your symbol, do you stand by it or disown it?
Rajnath Singh: This is (the book) BJP’s—I accept that but I also say that if you had written an article and I felt that it should be published by the BJP then I would have done it. It could be for a clarification or for public awakening.
Karan Thapar: If Pratibha Patil becomes the President, and it looks like she will, despite your allegations then what kind of relationship would you have with her?
Rajnath Singh: This is a hypothetical question.
Karan Thapar: It could become a reality, then what sort of relationship you would have with her?
Rajnath Singh: We should wait for the election results.
Karan Thapar: Will you apologise to her?
Rajnath Singh: No, there is no question of doing that. The clarifications must come from Pratibha Patil, the Congress or UPA.
Karan Thapar: Thank you, Mr Rajnath Singh.
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