LS Polls: RJD, LJP, SP to fight against Cong

It was a day of break ups for the Congress. The PMK split with the party to join AIADMK in what could be a game-changer in Tamil Nadu. Health Minister Anbumani Ramadoss will now resign from his post. There were cow belt blues as well for Congress as Lalu Prasad, Mulayam Singh Yadav and Ram Vilas Paswan formed a common anti-Congress front for 120 seats. Is the UPA disintegrating? That was the question Congress Spokesperson Jayanthi Natrajan and SP General Secretary Amar Singh debated on CNN-IBN's India at 9.

CNN-IBN: Jayanthi Natrajan, the news is bad for Congress on Thursday - bad news in Tamil Nadu and bad news in the North.

Jayanthi Natrajan: No, that's totally incorrect. In the North there was a further development today and if these parties have chosen to come to come together, then good luck to them. It's part of our strategy to make our strength improve in these two states and we hope that our seat tally will improve considerably. As far as Tamil Nadu is concerned, it was entirely on expected lines. The PMK if you remember had walked out of the DMK-DPA alliance in Tamil Nadu several months ago and so we knew very well that they were not going to fight with this front in Tamil Nadu. So I don't believe that it is as much as gloom and doom as you predict and I believe the PMK has not joined the Third Front. I think if you wait for a post-poll scenario you will see what happens. All I pointed out was that they did not have any issues with the Congress. They walked out a long time ago of the Tamil Nadu alliance and therefore this was only to be expected.

CNN-IBN: You are concentrating on the PMK but look at the situation in the last 15-20 days. Does the UPA even exist at this point in time? The PMK is out, Lalu ji is out, Samajwadi Party is out, Ram Vilas Paswan is out.

Jayanthi Natrajan: Well it was clearly the statement and the intention of the Congress Working Committee that we will not form an alliance at the national level and we will form only regional level alliances. I think this is entirely in line with that decision of the Congress Working Committee, nothing to be so surprised about.

CNN-IBN: Amar Singh has now announced the formation of a front within the UPA. Effectively have you now not broken the UPA by forming this front of Lalu Prasad, Mulayam Singh Yadav and Ram Vilas Paswan?

Amar Singh: This is absolutely wrong Rajdeep. I had offered 17 seats very humbly and very politely, in black and white to the Congress leadership. In response to my offer of 17 seats given to them, a list was announced unilaterally by the Congress where they claimed 10 of our sitting MPs. Those sitting MPs I was supposed to behead them for giving their precious vote to save this Manmohan Singh Government. I was not in a mood to that and Congress will never do that. If the Congress spokesperson admits that they are going to concede any one sitting seat of theirs to their alliance partners, I am ready to do the same for them. What is good for Peter has to be good for Paul. So Congress has done this.

CNN-IBN: Amar Singh if we are understanding you correctly, you are saying that you are forming this Fourth Front within a front because the Congress is not reaching out to its allies?

Amar Singh: Well you can analyse that. I have committed to Mrs Sonia Gandhi that I will not say any harsh words about the Congress leadership and that is why I am keeping quiet.

CNN-IBN: But you are definitely forming an alliance which is fighting the Congress particularly in Uttar Pradesh and Bihar.

Amar Singh: I am very sorry, the Congress has taken a decision that they will fight more than 50 odd seats in Uttar Pradesh and they will fight more than 37 seats in Bihar. So they want to expand their party as top Congress hierarchy has issued a statement also, that they want their jhanda and danda (flag and stick) all over if not fix it. So they want to expand their base, they want to outsmart Lalu ji, Ram Vilas ji and Mulayam Singh ji. And there is nothing wrong, I am not bitter about it. If they are wanting to expand their base at our cost, we are also entitled to maintain our existence.

CNN-IBN: Jayanthi Natrajan do you want to respond to that? Amar Singh says you are trying to outsmart Lalu ji, Ram Vilas Paswan and Mulayam Singh Yadav. Are you bitter about this front within a front in the UPA?

Jayanthi Natrajan: I think you are trying to make us quarrel. The facts are as follows. We are not bitter. We felt a little surprised when Lalu ji announced his seats unilaterally and left only three seats for us. Mr Amar Singh mentioned that Congress had unilaterally announced seats, I think Mulayam Singh ji had also announced his seats before the Congress had announced them. As far as the Congress is concerned, we had senior leaders who needed to be accommodated. I believe we have a right to build up our party as he (Amar Singh) concedes himself, just as they have the right to take whatever decision they like?

CNN-IBN: Isn't this arrogant? Isn't this the problem at the end of the day that the Congress still sees itself as one pan-Indian party and you have ignored the interests of the allies. The fact is that in Bihar, it is Lalu Prasad who is the strongman, in Uttar Pradesh it's Mulayam and that is where the problem is stemming from. That is why the allies have lost trust in the Congress.

Jayanthi Natrajan: The problem is that if you say for example that we have surrendered to Mamata Banerjee, we are a junior ally. I have heard this said on many channels. If we say we want to build our base, then you say that we are ignoring our allies. I think you should trust us to do what we want to do and we will face the consequences, which I am sure will be very surprising to what you have said just now and we will totally justify our stand.

CNN-IBN: Amar Singh ji, you can go on to say that you are fighting for political space with the Congress but at the end of the day, all this is going to benefit the NDA. The BJP must be laughing itself to the ballot box to see you quarreling like this.

Amar Singh: I am very sorry, what sort of political analysis you are contemplating? They should have thought about it during the Bhadoi by-election where Digvijay Singh and the Congress fought very vigorously against us. They came in seventh position, they polled a total 2,000 votes and lesser than independent candidates, despite being a national party. Bhadoi is a constituency dominated by Muslim communities, by Bunkars.

CNN-IBN: Amar Singh ji are we to understand that you have some sort of a personalised battle with some Congress leaders like Digvijay Singh. You are saying that you are not going to say anything harsh against anyone but it's seeming pretty clear that you do have a battle with some second-rung leaders of the Congress.

Amar Singh: Please don't allege that, I am too small a fry. I am a responsible person of a political outfit. What words do I have when list is announced without any provocation, wherein the state interlocutor of the Congress is asking for 10 sitting MPs of ours. I possibly can't behead 10 sitting MPs of ours simply because on those 10 seats so called senior leaders of their outfit are there. To accommodate them I cannot liquidate the entity of my party.

CNN-IBN: Jayanthi Natrajan respond to that. It is coming back to the fact that at the end of the day, there is a certain arrogance of power the Congress still seems to carry within - the belief that you can still win a majority on your own and you don't need allies. You have ended up losing allies. Forget the PMK for the moment but there are people like Lalu Prasad and Mulayam Singh Yadav who are potential post-poll allies even now for you.

Jayanthi Natrajan: The secular groups in the country will come together, whoever they are, under the leadership of the Congress and we are bound to get a large number of seats and I would like to immediately refute what you are saying. There is no question of arrogance. I think every party has a right to build its base howsoever insignificant it may seem at this point in time. We are taking that risk - honestly, courageously and with confidence. We are sure the people will repay our confidence in kind and vote for us.

CNN-IBN: Are you discounting this fourth front within a front today?

Jayanthi Natrajan: No I am not discounting anything at all. I think that at the end of the day, the Congress strategy will work out and the secular platform will come together after the elections.

CNN-IBN: Amar Singh are you going to support the UPA after the elections? Is Manmohan Singh still your candidate for the prime minister's post or will you support a Third Front government?

Amar Singh: As long as I am not shown the door by Sonia ji, I am not going to leave her and if you are saying that Rahul Gandhi and Digvijay Singh - as I am reading in the papers - will help the Congress grow, I wish them best of luck. If Congress grows, I don't have a problem. The BSP and the BJP, however, should be contained.

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