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After two serving generals were indicted in a land scam in Darjeeling on Monday, in Chandigarh the government has scrapped a deal cleared by Punjab Governor, former army chief General Rodrigues. A decision from the court of inquiry in the Darjeeling case is still pending, but the military embarrassment is complete and the Army's top is brass is desperately trying to save face.

The question that was being asked on CNN-IBN's Talking Point was: Is the Indian Army tainted by corruption? Former Army PRO, Colonel Anil Bhatt; Major General (Retd) Satbir Singh; and senior journalist Kanwar Sandhu joined CNN-IBN to try and answer the question.

CNN-IBN: It seems as if the Darjeeling fraud has two of the top eight generals of the Army under the scanner. The stain of corruption seems to be going higher and higher.

Satbir Singh: I think we are blowing this issue out of proportion. If you look at the whole scene of the country, there are better issues which need to be discussed. As far as the Indian Army is concerned, they are also a part of the same society, the same nation and they cannot be not affected.

CNN-IBN: Are you suggesting that it is not a major issue if top generals of the Army are involved in corruption and that the Army only mirrors society? We thought that the Army was supposed to be distinct, was supposed to be corruption free.

Satbir Singh: No, I wish to tell you that these are isolated incidents and that too the charges have not been proved at all. There is a court of enquiry on. I have known the two officers (who have been named in the scam) during my service and they are excellent officials. If they have used their discretion in some issue, it should be properly investigated and there should be no finger pointing as we are all doing now. Let these generals deliver when there is war. That is all.

CNN-IBN: The two men you are defending have been indicted in a preliminary enquiry, but the Minister of State of Defence Pallam Raju said on Tuesday that fitting action will be taken against those who have been found guilty. It is Rs 269 crore scandal and shockingly takes one right to the top of the Army. Shouldn't the Army be reacting at this time?

Anil Bhatt: We have to take into account the fact that the court of enquiry is still in progress.

CNN-IBN: But the preliminary findings are in.

Anil Bhatt: I don't know whether the preliminary findings have been leaked, leaked with a purpose or not, I cannot comment on that. However, the fact remains that there hasn't been any sale, there hasn't been any purchase. The land in question is two tea estates astride the Sukna 33 headquarters. This core headquarters moved there for the 1962 operations. I believe the land in question is a barren stretch - one of the tea estates at least.

CNN-IBN: You are saying that there is still no proof of corruption and whatever has been done is discretionary.

Anil Bhatt: There is no proof of corruption.

CNN-IBN: But there have been reports which are suggesting that the papers were fraudulent, were forged. These reports are coming in from the Army top brass. As you say the enquiry is still on. We would like to bring in Kanwar Sandhu. Mr Sandhu do you feel that the media is jumping the gun in cases like these? Are we guilty perhaps of hanging the Army before the accused are actually court martialed?

Kanwar Sandhu: I don't agree with either Major General Satbir Singh or with Anil Bhatt. The very fact that a court of enquiry has been ordered against these two senior officers is a very serious matter. One of the officers under a cloud of suspicion happens to be the Military Secretary, responsible for all appointments and postings in the Army. The second person is a Core Commander and the Core is the highest fighting formation of the Indian Army. So it's a very serious matter and the very fact that a court of enquiry has been ordered is proof that some wrong-doing has taken place, though officially the enquiry is not yet out.

CNN-IBN: Anil Bhatt please respond to this.

Anil Bhatt: An enquiry must be ordered whenever there is any doubt. If the enquiry comes out with anything solid, you can be sure that the Army is not going to spare these people.

CNN-IBN: There is a general feeling that when you are in a middle or lower rank, then you have to face the heat but if you are at the top, you may not.

Anil Bhatt: Do you recall the general who got caught in the rum scam? He faced the heat. Then there was A K Lal who was indicted for something, he lost his job. If anything is proved against them, they will lose their jobs. That is the least.

CNN-IBN: Major General Satbir Singh respond to this.

Satbir Singh: There are too many checks and balances within audit and compliance within the Indian Defence Services. It is the Army which has ordered the court of enquiry, so therefore, if they find something let me tell you that action will be taken. Remember quick action was taken in the Tehelka case. Defence Services take immediate note of these things and immediate action is taken. This is not to say that we are defending the two officers.

CNN-IBN: Major General Singh mentioned the Tehelka case. We have seen cases when the Army moves really quickly against officers who are found to be guilty, but civilian courts don't move so quickly. Do you agree with that Mr Sandhu?

Kanwar Sandhu: Yes, when one looks at the environment in which the Armed Forces function, the Army's credibility is still very high. But if you look at the Army's credibility today versus what it was say four decades ago, I think the credibility has definitely nose-dived and particularly in the appointment of senior officers there is need for much greater scrutiny.

CNN-IBN: Anil Bhatt respond to that, because in this case, prima facie there is some kind of wrong-doing. Prima Facie it seems that many of the allegations seem to be true.

Anil Bhatt: Let the court of enquiry be over and you can be sure if there is anyone found guilty, they will be taken to task. There is accountability here. It is not like bureaucrats or politicians who can do far worse and get away with it.

CNN-IBN: Point taken about accountability but the point that Kanwar Sandhu was making was about credibility. Major General Satbir Singh, there have been cases of pilfering of ration, liquor being misused, now a land scam. Has the credibility of the Indian Army in the eyes of the citizens taken a knock?

Satbir Singh: Have you taken a look at so many other scams happening in the country today?

CNN-IBN: Sir the Army was supposed to be different. The respect for the Army came because it was not supposed to be like any other institute.

Satbir Singh: So that is why we need to take note of this at the national level - why is there a shortage of soldiers, why is the youth not coming to join the Armed Forces, why is the right material not coming to us, why are veterans protesting, why has one rank one pension not been granted? The nation is just sleeping over these issues. You know the academies of the Armed Forces are empty. I just want to besiege the conscience of this nation that let us make our security the best.

CNN-IBN: Sir point taken that these cases cannot be generalised, but Colonel Bhatt, is there a credibility crisis or not? Tehelka happened, defence deals came under scrutiny and now you have got a land scam.

Anil Bhatt: On Tehelka, I would like to say that it was a very selective sting operation. But they did not dare to try the same kind of sting with the politicians or the bureaucrats. The other thing is that as a platoon commander, a troop leader, a battery commander one feels like the king. It's like nothing on earth. But the day the Armed Forces officer lands up in New Delhi and when he functions between bureaucrats and politicians who are his leaders, then they see things. The babus and the netas set these examples.

CNN-IBN: So you are saying blame the babus and the netas but do not blame the generals.

Satbir Singh: I see a conspiracy to try and belittle the Armed Forces here. This is not the right thing for the nation. Let us look after these officers, give them equipment, train them well and let us defend this country.

More on: Indian Army, Darjeeling land scam, Lt Gen Avadesh Prakash, Lt Gen PK Rath