Interview: Raj vs Uddhav for Marathi vote

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Two senas are fighting tooth and nail for the Marathi vote in the upcoming Maharashtra Assembly elections. Leaders of the two sena – Shiv Sena and Maharashtra Navnirman Sena – are estranged Thackeray cousins Uddhav and Raj, who have ruled out any possibility of a reconciliation.

Will the sons-of-the-soil agenda help the two brothers or split the Marathi vote? CNN-IBN Editor-in-Chief Rajdeep Sardesai questions the Thackeray cousins in an exclusive interview.

Raj Thackeray on Maharashtra vs the rest

Rajdeep Sardesai: I am a Maharashtrian but I speak in Hindi. You have decided to give this interview in Marathi despite the fact that you know Hindi well. Why do you dislike Hindi so much, Mr Raj Thackeray?

Raj Thackeray: It's not that I dislike Hindi, or any other language. But I am passionate about Marathi. Such an old language, why should I not speak my own language?

Rajdeep Sardesai: But Hindi is a national language. If you want to be a national leader and put forth your views in front of the people of India, then why not speak in Hindi?

Raj Thackeray: No, I want to put forth my views in front of the people of Maharashtra. My party is called Maharashtra Navnirman Sena. Those who live here, but can't understand Marathi, should learn the language.

Rajdeep Sardesai: People feel that when you don't speak in Hindi, it's part of your anti-North Indian campaign.

Raj Thackeray: No, it's not like that. They should build their own states. The jobs that will be generated in Maharasthra should go to the people of Maharashtra first.

Rajdeep Sardesai: Is this country India or Maharashtra?

Raj Thackeray: This country is like Europe. It has one currency but different languages.

Rajdeep Sardesai: People who come for jobs to Mumbai from Bihar and UP, aren't they Indians?

Raj Thackeray: This is one country, I accept. I didn't create so many languages. It happened during Nehru's time. Maharashtra's language is Marathi. I will promote my own language. Let others say what they want to. Won't you put an interpreter if the French PM speaks in French?

Rajdeep Sardesai: Your opponents feel that by raising the issue of language, you are trying to send a signal that your campaign is against North-Indians?

Raj Thackeray: Rajdeep, go and say this in Tamil Nadu that they should speak in Hindi, say it in Andhra. Tell Chidambaram (Home Minister) to speak in Hindi. Did you tell Kalam when he was President to speak in Hindi? Did he give one speech in Hindi?

Rajdeep Sardesai: They don't know Hindi. But you do?

Raj Thackeray: It's not a question of knowing the language. The former President of India did not speak Hindi, which you call the national language.

Rajdeep Sardesai: Do you feel that in today's India, the campaign against migrants is right?

Raj Thackeray: You won't go to other states and tell them this. You will only come to Maharashtra to tell us. The kind of people who are coming today, they make people like Nirupam and Kripa Shankar ask for tickets to fight elections.

Rajdeep Sardesai: So you think Mumbai should have a permit system?

Raj Thackeray: Yes, of course.

Rajdeep Sardesai: Are you saying that the train that comes from Bihar and UP and people who are coming here for jobs, you will stop them?

Raj Thackeray: Yes. It's not about stopping people at stations. We need to give them a message that they are not welcome to stay here.

Rajdeep Sardesai: You are saying permit system. But your workers feel that you have given them a license to beat them up.

Raj Thackeray: Please understand that the violence that took place was not started by me. It happened when Abu Azmi and Amar Singh threatened us. When UPiites don't celebrate UP day, then why celebrate it in Maharashtra?

Rajdeep Sardesai: But how can you stop people from coming?

Raj Thackeray: They should not come to my Maharashtra and say these things. They can say it in UP and do what they want. You can't do it here.

Uddhav on the Mee Mumbaikar campaign

Rajdeep Sardesai: You started a campaign called 'Mee Mumbaikar' against the North Indians. That campaign is being spearheaded by Raj and you have focused on Vidharbha, Marathwada and farmers?

Uddhav Thackeray: If I speak of Mumbai, it has it's own capacity. The glass of water will overflow if you fill it to the brim. That's Mumbai situation.

Rajdeep Sardesai: Do you agree that there should be a permit system? What's the difference between you and Raj?

Uddhav Thackeray: The difference is that, this was said by Balasaheb in 1966. We must accept it. Someone said to me your party is regional. I said to that person, it's regional but also original. We didn't steal ideas and issues from other parties.

Rajdeep Sardesai: But even you became Anti-North Indian?

Uddhav Thackeray: Not Anti-North Indian. Every state has a government and a CM. Is it not the responsibility of that state government to take care of the welfare of its people? If the Bihar government performs, people won't leave.

Rajdeep Sardesai: So there isn't much difference between the two of you?

Uddhav Thackeray: There isn't much difference. But there is one, I don't copy anyone and steal anyone's issues. I am taking forward my father's ideology.

Rajdeep Sardesai: Are you moving away from the ideology of violence that came to be associated with the Sena? Do you accept that the Sena made mistakes, the way riots took place?

Uddhav Thackeray: How many riots did we organise? The 1992 riots, did we start it?

Rajdeep Sardesai: The Shiv Sena's image became that of a party of rioters? Are you trying to change that?

Uddhav Thackeray: It's not that Shiv Sena never started riots. In 1992-93, Shiv Sena saved Mumbai. Didn't North Indians also get saved in that? Did Shiv Sena only save Marathi manoos. When we donate blood, do we ask who is going to get it.

Raj on Marathi manoos

Rajdeep Sardesai: You say that you want to take Maharashtra and the Marathi manoos forward? But in this election we can see that the Marathi vote is getting split because of the MNS. So then where is the unity of the Marathi manoos. Aren't you being a spoiler?

Raj Thackeray: That is the Shiv Sena's perception.

Rajdeep Sardesai: Uddhav Thackeray says that Raj Thackeray has taken 'supari' from the Congress?

Raj Thackeray: Do I own a paan shop? They are fools who know nothing. Some feel that a vote for MNS is a free vote. Only people who have got everything for free can think like this.

Rajdeep Sardesai: But he has accused you of taking 'supari' from Congress?

Raj Thackeray: In 2004, was MNS there? Congress won five out of six seats in Mumbai. Who did you blame then? Ram Naik feels that Sanjay Nirupam should thank MNS for his victory. But then who helped Govinda win in 2004?

Rajdeep Sardesai: What has the Shiv Sena done since 1966? Has the situation of the Marathi manoos improved? Does the Marathi manoos still have self-respect?

Raj Thackeray: The most important issue today is of mother-tongue. Those who can speak Marathi has dropped to 65 per cent.

Uddhav on Balasaheb's legacy

Uddhav Thackeray: None of us is the true heir. The Marathi manoos is the true heir of Balasaheb's legacy.

Rajdeep Sardesai: But the Marathi manoos is not benefitting since their vote is getting divided?

Uddhav Thackeray: It is a question of ideology. Balasaheb has spent his entire life working for Maharashtra and the Marathi manoos. He took up the cause of Hindutva. I have promised him that you give us your blessings and I just need you to address one rally, which will be the victory rally. We will celebrate Dussehra that day.

Rajdeep Sardesai: Will the Shiv Sena's flag fly high after the elections?

Uddhav Thackeray: Yes, absolutely. I am touring the whole of Maharashtra. Yesterday, I was in Vidarbha's Gadchiroli, Gondia and Bhandara. Wherever I go, I see a wave.

Rajdeep Sardesai: You see a wave. But there is also a rebellion. Manohar Joshi's house was attacked?

Uddhav Thackeray: We need to understand one thing. Rebellions happen in all the parties. But they will not succeed. Because people have decided that we have to change the government. Whoever comes now, they will not vote for them.

Rajdeep Sardesai: You say that the people have decided to change the government. But isn't it true that when there is internal rebellion in an Opposition party, it helps the ruling party?

Uddhav Thackeray: This is exactly what the people have understood. If we break, then those who they don't want will come back to power. That is why they won't do anything that helps the Cong-NCP.

Rajdeep Sardesai: But in every seat in Mumbai-Thane, there is a three-way contest for the Marathi manoos' vote?

Uddhav Thackeray: No, it is not being split. It's a Congress conspiracy. In the Lok Sabha elections, votes did get split in Mumbai, but it won't happen again.

Raj’s game plan

Rajdeep Sardesai: People say Raj Thackeray is a good orator and very charismatic, but that your party is still very small and will win 10-12 seats at the most. You will split votes but won't get seats?

Raj Thackeray: This is what they feel. You never gave me a chance before the Lok Sabha elections. When I did well, you are now calling me a spoiler.

Rajdeep Sardesai: You got some votes and nine-15 seats in Mumbai-Thane. How do you expect to win the election with such few seats?

Raj Thackeray: But that has an impact on other seats as well.

Rajdeep Sardesai: Nobody is denying that you are an important factor in this election. But the question is that if your party is small, then you haven't been able to strengthen it. People have left you?

Raj Thackeray: When Shiv Sena was formed, even they had very few MLAs. Shiv Sena, that was born in 1966, won the BMC elections in 1985 for the first time.

Rajdeep Sardesai: Bal Thackeray made the organisation. You haven't been able to do it?

Raj Thackeray: Why don't you compare their first three years with mine?

Uddhav on the turf war

Rajdeep Sardesai: Is it possible that Uddhav and Raj will come together?

Uddhav Thackeray: I haven't left my home. I didn't leave the Sena.

Rajdeep Sardesai: Do you want Raj to return home?

Uddhav Thackeray: I didn't run away from home.

Rajdeep Sardesai: Should Raj come back and strengthen the Marathi manoos? Are you ready for that?

Uddhav Thackeray: The Marathi manoos will not accept anyone who is giving so much pain and sadness to Balasaheb.

Rajdeep Sardesai: So you are saying that you won't let Raj rejoin the Shiv Sena?

Uddhav Thackeray: There is no need for that.

Rajdeep Sardesai: If it is a hung Assembly and you have to take his support?

Uddhav Thackeray: It won't be a hung Assembly.

Raj responds to Uddhav

Rajdeep Sardesai: Is it possible that Uddhav and Raj will come together? Uddhav told me that since he did not leave home and you did, I should ask you. Will you go back?

Raj Thackeray: When I was there, who ignored me?

Rajdeep Sardesai: Will it change? You both are fighting in front of an 84-year-old leader. Won't he be feeling sad?

Raj Thackeray: It's not a question of being sad. Am I not feeling sad. Do I feel happy. Do I do Garba every night? If they say that the Congress is their number one enemy, then why do they target me everyday?

Rajdeep Sardesai: So a reunion is not at all possible?

Raj Thackeray: Rajdeep, you tell me, will you go back to NDTV?

Uddhav on his future plans

Rajdeep Sardesai: Will Uddhav Thackeray become CM, if Shiv Sena wins?

Uddhav Thackeray: The right answer is that even today the remote control is with Bal Thackeray.

Rajdeep Sardesai: Are you ready? People feel that you are ready unlike Bal Thackeray. Your politics is different.

Uddhav Thackeray: I don't shy away from responsibilities. But I don't have a personal ambition that I want this or that. I am doing my work for Maharashtra. But I am also a son and it's my duty to keep my father happy.

Raj and the number game

Rajdeep Sardesai: If there is a hung Assembly, will you support the Shiv Sena?

Raj Thackeray: Whoever supports my agenda for Maharashtra, will get my support.

Rajdeep Sardesai: So you are ready to support Shiv Sena even if Uddhav becomes CM?

Raj Thackeray: I don't care about that.

Rajdeep Sardesai: So you will support anyone?

Raj Thackeray: 100 per cent from outside.

Rajdeep Sardesai: Congress-NCP or Sena-BJP. You can support anyone?

Raj Thackeray: Because both are alike.

Uddhav and Raj on their legacy

Rajdeep Sardesai: Your opponents say Uddhav is not as strong as Bal Thackeray, that he can keep the party together, your nature is not like Balasaheb. People used to be scared by his name.

Uddhav Thackeray: People are still scared of him. He is my father, but that doesn't mean I adopt his style. Just to adopt someone's style doesn't make you the true heir. You have to take forward their ideas.

Rajdeep Sardesai: You see yourself as the true heir to Bal Thackeray's legacy? You have similar personality traits.

Raj Thackeray: If I can do something for the Marathi manoos and Maharashtra then he will be happy definitely.

(The interview was in Marathi and translated into English)

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